Gerry Lindgren beat the USSR as a highschooler (I think) during the height of the USSR. The Olympics aren't the only thing that matters and I don't understand why you so many of you think so. There are many great runners who never won an Olympic gold medal or any Olympic medal.
Greatness is about a combination of dominance, longevity, fame, and significance.
Some of the Africans increased thequality but more disgraced the sport via drugs. And they really weren't that good before the drug era. Ever seen a picture of Frank Shorter losing to an African? No, because there aren't any.
See Dave Wottly....made mince meat of the Africans in the Munich 800.
Let us avoid the hype and the drugs of runners from far off, exotic locales.
The real difference is that the old guys were all semi-amateurs. A guy like Bob Schul quit because have needed to earn a living. The newer guys are living quite well off their professionalism. Consider Pre tending bar to Rupp's 'job.'
Shorter [2 golds there Waldemar]
Rodgers
Billy Mills !!! Billy Mills !!!
Kansas Flash
Rupp
Bonkers wrote:
I think Pre is underrated. It's likely that he was the best clean 5k runner in the world when he finished 4th at the olympics. We all know the rumors about Viren. Pre was clearly 2nd best in that race, but killed himself trying to break the unbreakable Finn.
You can also add that he held every A,erican record from 2000m to 10000m at the time of his deat.
Bonkers wrote:
I think Pre is underrated. It's likely that he was the best clean 5k runner in the world when he finished 4th at the olympics. We all know the rumors about Viren. Pre was clearly 2nd best in that race, but killed himself trying to break the unbreakable Finn.
Classic.
Pre is easily the most overrated runner, in large part due to him being from the US (and this is a conversation about US runners, so that's a non-factor, but still:); you can't make doping assumptions, for all we know Pre and Ryun and Meb were dopers and their competitors weren't; Pre gets points for his style (on and off the track), but that doesn't make him a better runner, just a more popular one. He should have paid more attention (he ran way wide the whole race) and implemented some tactic in that OG race.
He fought amateurism, was extremely competitive, welcomely played the heel, was a rebellious partier--all these non-competition factors make him a much more popular runner than he was accomplished. Which isn't to say he didn't do anything on the track, he deserves mention in this conversation, but he is probably the most famous US distance runner ever despite having a weak claim to being a top 5 US distance runner ever.
I don't understand how Ryun isn't on every list.
I also don't understand how Rupp is rated so highly, you guys must be new to the sport. He rarely races and when he does he rarely wins. Compare his record to the aura of invincibility that some of the others on this list have had and it's really no contest.
The Africans disgraced the sport with drugs? The Munich 800? Talk about selective facts to support a point of view. The Africans dominate distance running. Many are drug cheats, but so are many non-Africans. Perhaps Africans were beaten in the Munich 800, but they regularly destroy other continents in races. If everyone in the world were running clean and it was an even playing field, Africans would still dominate.
It is hard to argue that Rupp shouldn't be on the list with his medals, but it is kind of weird that a runner from current times being considered for one of the all-time greats of American long distance running has PBs that rank him nowhere near the top of his field. He is like 15th in the 10000 and doesn't crack the top 25 in the 5000 and marathon. Many others on these lists were really competing with the best of their era both on time and racing ability.
"but it is kind of weird that a runner from current times being considered for one of the all-time greats of American long distance running has PBs that rank him nowhere near the top of his field."
Actually, his 10k time is near the top of his peers. No one (in the world) has run faster since his 2014 race. The last time some one ran faster was 2011. Prior to that 2005.
No current track runner has run faster (though Rupp, too, may be done with Track).
Of all American Runners talked about, only Ryun had both success at winning races and running fast times. And his career was not as long lived (trained really hard, and had to earn a living).
3 pages and just one mention of a woman?
Decker
Flanagan - a few ARs, Olympic medal, World XC medal
Huddle - some great times but needs to step up at major championships to be on the list
Simpson - Olympic medal, 2x World medal
Rowbury - 1500 & 5k AR, World medal
kimani wrote:
Classic.
Pre is easily the most overrated runner
I share these sentiments. His story has been skewed by Nike and the powers that be who have marketed him as the GOAT. Yes, he was dominant in the U.S., but against world class competition he struggles, even against runners like Harald Norpoth who were at the ends of their careers. And ultimately he died too young. He's like the JFK of running, representing an ideal and potential that was only partially fulfilled in his lifetime.
Which makes for an interesting thought exercise; what would have happened to Pre had he lived? He was known to have had some pretty signficiant issues with his sciatica, and I wonder if this wouldn't have flared up as he got older. Had he remained healthy, I think he would have had a shot at a medal in '76, but I don't think he could have beaten Viren. And of course he would not have raced in 80, so ultimately I think his career, short of setting a world record, would've been a mixed bag.
In the grand scheme of things, I rank him with Salazar and Virgin...outstanding talent, dominant for a few years, but not the greatest.
Lagat.
American born - Ryun
don't forget wrote:
3 pages and just one mention of a woman?
Decker
Flanagan - a few ARs, Olympic medal, World XC medal
Huddle - some great times but needs to step up at major championships to be on the list
Simpson - Olympic medal, 2x World medal
Rowbury - 1500 & 5k AR, World medal
You finally bring women into the conversation and you don't have Deena Kastor on your list. Well done.
Again, Webb was great, but the cult of Webb is, uh, kinda wacky.
I never quite understood why Billy Mills comes up in any of these discussions. Sure he has a gold but his overall career wasnt that great.
Hell in 1964 Mills was the 3rd best runner behind Schul and Dellinger.
Anyone who doesn't have Galen Rupp first no matter drugs or not since there hasn't been anything to say he has yet, seriously just has a major biased hate problem
He has 10 outdoor titles at least like 8 in the 10k, 1 5k and 1 marathon
He's top ten in the mile, 3k and 5k indoors all time, he's the fastest non African born 10k runner ever, he's run like 12:58 in the 5k, and has two Olympic medals, and is always in the hunt for a medal, plus he's had a long career and still plenty of years left
Gotta bee wrote:
Anyone who doesn't have Galen Rupp first no matter drugs or not since there hasn't been anything to say he has yet, seriously just has a major biased hate problem
He has 10 outdoor titles at least like 8 in the 10k, 1 5k and 1 marathon
He's top ten in the mile, 3k and 5k indoors all time, he's the fastest non African born 10k runner ever, he's run like 12:58 in the 5k, and has two Olympic medals, and is always in the hunt for a medal, plus he's had a long career and still plenty of years left
agreed. Rupp is somewhere in there. He will surely be ranked behind a gold medal winner that is comparable careers on US soil. He is surely behind Schul.
1964 was likely the best one single year for any runner from the US. Schul dominated the world.
Distancelover wrote:
Chelimo just no. You took a shortcut to citizenship so no.
Joining the military is something most Americans don't have the guts to do. I consider what he did to be FAR MORE admirable than what Lagat did - compete for Kenya while an American citizen.
Look, I know Webb isn't going to be #2 on most people's list but the Webb does have one thing going for him that the OP is right about.
During his prime for a few months in 2007, Webb could beat anyone in the world in his event. Yes, it helped that Kenya didn't have the studs they do now in 2007 but still.
He did it several times in 2007. There are ZERO other pros in the US (besides Lagat and since the best days of his career were for Kenya I'm not considering him) that can say that unless you are going to count Jager this year with Kipruto being injured.
Think about it? Do you think Centro stands a chance in any race where the Kenyans are on top of their game? Nope. Ritz? Nope. Meb? Nope. Rupp? Please, Rupp is 1-21 against Farah in his career.
# of Diamond League victories for those guys? Zero (Rupp might have one but I don't think the 10 k at Pre was a DL event).
Webb won both Paris and NY in 2007.
Webb , we miss you.
I don't get the Webb fans. Solid career but never really seemed to meet his potential. Certainly not a top 5, or really even top 10. Ryun was awesome, His times were world records at the time, and he was an Olympic medalist (tough as an asthmatic at altitude), Shorter was a 2x marathon gold medalist (after proper testing), was great on the track, had some top finishes in the world cross champs, and started the running boom in the US. Rupp is right in the mix, despite the anti-Rupp sentiment expressed on this site. Great from the mile to the marathon, with championship medals and top fnishes. Virgin was also very good and missed an Olympics ('80) when he was the trials champ. Won a couple of world cross titles and set high school records. Others to consider Rodgers (marathon and world cross), Centrowitz, McChesney (held 2 American records), maybe Pre for his range, and possibly Salazar. He was great from the 5k to the marathon, with cross success from high school through open.