CGeorgeRun wrote:
3. I do not know if that drug celebrex requires a prescription. I doubt that it is banned. But that is weird. This isn't anything new. But it is still weird.
Required a prescription. Not on the WADA prohibited list. Checked this morning as both the brand name and generic.
"Thyroid medication is not a performance enhancer. I just missed the American Record over 25km road on sub-par training. It's a placebo."
- Dathan Ritzenhein, Champion
Mr. Obvious wrote:
Rupper Dupper wrote:How are people not frustrated by USADA here? They have a boat load of testimony, they have emails, and they have medical records clearly indicating that Welling and Ritz were getting more than that allowable amount of L-carnitine through the infusions. They need to stop it with the character assassination in the newspapers and bust his a$$ already.
I'm frustrated by USADA.
It is possible that the records that they have clearly indicating that the athletes received more than the allowable amount of L carnitine (this is not technically accurate, it is the volume of saline that is regulated, not the L Carnitine) are not as clear as proposed.
This document is clearly floating around and has been seen by many, many people. Somebody needs to publish the underlying document, they way Buzzfeed published the Trump dossier...
If only their were some enterprising track and field journalists that were interested in doping stories...
The problem is that this is old new being rehashed over and over with a slight bit of desperation of trying to conjure up something new. USADA is desperate which clearly shows nothing is there. They have depositions , interviews, assumptions but nothing tangible thats prosecutable. Bad record keeping would get thrown out of a court in a second. As they say in the investigative world they are at a dead end.
To your point, having journalists interesting in doping stories would happen if they had something to report, any real investigative journalist looks at this and says " there is nothing new". The sensationalist tabloid reporter will fabricate something just to have a headline with little research or facts, this site can be pretty good at that at times.
I'm out wrote:
I feel like I'm reading the same story year after year after year, yet the needle has not moved one bit. Same exact story every time we get close to a USA Championhsip.
If USADA has something concrete, say so. If not, it's time to move on. Good grief.
Don't we have bigger doping problems than whether or not Tara Welling took too much of a legal supplement six years ago?
Agreed. I'm by no means a fan of NOP and would not be surprised if one day they did in fact go down, but this story is really getting old. NOthing new has come to light - it's just the same allegations reworded and reprinted by different. Like I said before, I'm no fan of AlSal and have no inclination to defend him or his group, but, for real, let's get something concrete or move on.
Rupper Dupper wrote:
One of the many things that bugs about this is that USADA talks to the media (or at least the media spins it) like this is an open and shut case. But nothing happens and nothing has happened for 2 years.
Somebody is leaking the dossier. I would assume that it is USADA, but it is not exactly clear that this is the source. Officially USADA does not talk to the media.
My guess, and it is just speculation:
They may have enough on the infusions to bring a case against Salazar. But bringing cases against support personnel is difficult as the WADA procedures really, really are focused on actual test results and both the standards and methods are clear on an analytical positive and murky on non-analytical cases.
Even assuming the case against Salazar could be made, my guess is that they want to make a case against athletes (Rupp and Farah most likely) and that they do not have evidence to do that.
Dr. Brown already gave medical records to USADA for people that signed releases. That would almost certainly include Ritz, Magness, Goucher. Dr. Brown's contention, which I think is likely, is that they wanted him to testify about other people who had not given releases (Rupp) and he couldn't do so without violating privacy and medical practice standards.
So it is possible the only athletes they could sanction are the ones who are cooperating. That would not be a very satisfying outcome, I wouldn't think.
erik wrote:
What stands out to me here is the altered medical records, which is wrong in itself, but also shows an intention to coverup a wrongdoing -- particularly the 45ml figure which is way off any reasonable value given the procedure done, and happens to conveniently fall under the 50ml threshold.
Wow the LRC web guy chiming in;) My question is how did USADA get NOP emails.
And this report was not released by USADA, it was hacked by Fancy Bears.
Here is where I wish Nike put the sport above Alberto Salazar. Hire an independent investigator and get to the bottom of this. Problem is public hasn't shown much concern.
Only way Nike cares is if pressure gets turned up. Only way I see that happening is a) public starts caring more b) charges are brought or c) Some athlete files some sort of lawsuit against the company .
I'm not sure about what sort of lawsuit would be filed but people are always suing big companies about shady practices and here you have a company representative allegedly pushing shading activities that affect one's health while controlling one's pay. Seems like some enterprising lawyer could turn up the heat.
News dump wrote:
To your point, having journalists interesting in doping stories would happen if they had something to report, any real investigative journalist looks at this and says " there is nothing new". The sensationalist tabloid reporter will fabricate something just to have a headline with little research or facts, this site can be pretty good at that at times.
It was a hint, perhaps too subtle, that rojo and wejo should acquired and publish the documents themselves, not some article based on them.
HGL wrote:
"Thyroid medication is not a performance enhancer. I just missed the American Record over 25km road on sub-par training. It's a placebo."
- Dathan Ritzenhein, Champion
May or may not be a performance enhancer, but not on the WADA banned list and a total nonstarter as far as a violation of anything.
wejo wrote:
Wow the LRC web guy chiming in;) My question is how did USADA get NOP emails.
And this report was not released by USADA, it was hacked by Fancy Bears.
They asked for them and Nike (Salazar) turned them over as part of the investigation. Covered long, long ago.
Have you seen the report, wejo?
wejo wrote:
erik wrote:What stands out to me here is the altered medical records, which is wrong in itself, but also shows an intention to coverup a wrongdoing -- particularly the 45ml figure which is way off any reasonable value given the procedure done, and happens to conveniently fall under the 50ml threshold.
Wow the LRC web guy chiming in;) My question is how did USADA get NOP emails.
And this report was not released by USADA, it was hacked by Fancy Bears.
Here is where I wish Nike put the sport above Alberto Salazar. Hire an independent investigator and get to the bottom of this. Problem is public hasn't shown much concern.
Only way Nike cares is if pressure gets turned up. Only way I see that happening is a) public starts caring more b) charges are brought or c) Some athlete files some sort of lawsuit against the company .
I'm not sure about what sort of lawsuit would be filed but people are always suing big companies about shady practices and here you have a company representative allegedly pushing shading activities that affect one's health while controlling one's pay. Seems like some enterprising lawyer could turn up the heat.
Wejo - the best lawsuit that could be filed against NIKE would arise out of an athlete claiming that the Nike sponsored/funded coach, Alberto Salazar, ordered an athlete to do something that was potentially illegal under WADA code with the threat of having an endorsement deal terminated if he did not comply. It would be bad faith, duress, etc.... You could make a decent lawsuit based on that. But the problem is - it would require the underlying knowledge by the athlete that whatever he/she was being asked to do was known to be illegal at the time.
sippin lean wrote:
Has anyone tried L-Carnitine? Curiosity is all that I have taken away from the article.
It sounds like the only way to get it to performance-enhancing levels is to go have it infused for over an hour in Dr. Brown's office.
Anyone else surprised by the salary data? For not missing the Olympics, Ritz received only half of his $200,000 salary (paraphrased). That is a massive drop financially for what is a difficult task (considering it's based not only on your performance, but others, compared to a PR, say)!
Not sure I'd ever sign a contract that stipulated a 100% performance bonus which such a low base (relative to his quality of performance at the time) but - do we have any other data points w.r.t. runner salaries?
Ritz testifies against Nike and is no longer Nike sponsored. Guess that question is cleared up.
I cannot see how anyone can be a fan of Al Sal, NOP or any of the athletes that stay on the team. Alberto obviously has a giant ego and does not care one bit about the health of his runners. He needs to be kicked out of the sport for good.
Funny also how no one is jumping on Ritz like they did Kara. When I saw the tweet last night and knowing that Ritz is universally liked, I knew it would be brushed aside.
poster formerly known as Mundu wrote:
Old allegations but now appearing in high definition:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/19/sports/nike-oregon-project-alberto-salazar-dathan-ritzenhein.html?_r=0
Fake news.
Seriously, the NYT and basically the MSM in the US and much of the West will ignore literally all wrongdoing by E. Africans - basically almost any third world nation or performers but they will go hog wild with accusations against any successful white performers. Mo Farah works with AlSal so he was reluctantly dragged into the mess by the worn out old menshevik red diaper grandbabies at the Times. Laugh now, but they apply their political views and innate hatreds to everything.
Depends on when he had signed his last contract, but obviously the appearance in the 2008 olympic marathon as the top american finisher, coupled with anticipation of another olympic team in 2012 would result in a "decent" base salary. His accomplishments can be seen here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dathan_Ritzenhein
Of course, Nike likes to insert reductions and those are completely discretionary. The article made it look like he was reduced for not making the marathon team in January, 2012. I wonder if he saw any kind of bonus/raise for making the team in the 10,000m? Dathan would later come in 13th in the Olympic 10,000m that summer in London (where Farah won gold and Rupp silver)
Ritz was on a downward spiral from Nike anyways due to his performance, so maybe he though I'll just kick 'em in the balls and leave.
MoneyRunner? wrote:
Anyone else surprised by the salary data? For not missing the Olympics, Ritz received only half of his $200,000 salary (paraphrased). That is a massive drop financially for what is a difficult task (considering it's based not only on your performance, but others, compared to a PR, say)!
Not sure I'd ever sign a contract that stipulated a 100% performance bonus which such a low base (relative to his quality of performance at the time) but - do we have any other data points w.r.t. runner salaries?
Maybe a little, but not too surprised, he's in the later stages of his career obviously. I'm sure he has a lot of incentives in it beyond just making the team.
yeah but you need thyroid medication to keep your hormones in check from EPO micro dosing and HGH.
salazar tells them the injections are only l-carnitine and thyroid and vit D cocktails. what he isnt telling them is what else he is hiding in with the injections.
Rupp, Farah and prob centro prob all get the good stuff, and kara at the time. the others prob only get the "placebo" stuff till salazar thinks upping them with some real deal gear is worth it.
he uses lower level tools like magness as guinea pigs. then look at mary cain...she didnt know what was in her injections but decided to refuse taking them. alberto then tells her goodbye...and now she is running SLOOOOOW
kara wanted to stop taking them, alberto gave her the ax, she told him she would squeal, he said he would expose their affair and ruin her marriage and reputation. everyone who cant see all the dots and connect them i feel bad for you.
if you look up side effects caused by certain steroids, EPO, and HGH you will see that they cause certain deficiencies, and these deficiences can be fixed by legal things like vit D, L-carnitine, and thyroid meds. getting TUEs for these things also keeps his pupils "ok" if things are a little off cause salazar can claim levels are off cause of their certain "conditions"...add in a corrupt doc who can skew medical reports or make "clean" results that are just slightly off.
in my mind salazar is more evil than rossa and Retardo. why? because he threatens his athletes if they refuse to comply. it reminds me of a CEO who preys on young hot interns. whereas rossa and Retardo are like pimps, "here take this EPO and HGH and then give me 80% of your earnings, you will still be more wealthy than anyone else in your country so make your choice"
MoneyRunner? wrote:
Anyone else surprised by the salary data? For not missing the Olympics, Ritz received only half of his $200,000 salary (paraphrased). That is a massive drop financially for what is a difficult task (considering it's based not only on your performance, but others, compared to a PR, say)!
Not sure I'd ever sign a contract that stipulated a 100% performance bonus which such a low base (relative to his quality of performance at the time) but - do we have any other data points w.r.t. runner salaries?
He made the 10,000 team though, so wouldn't he still get that extra $100k?
What bothers me is that one of the best American runners of all time only makes $100k, while still making an Olympic team. That's an absolute shame. Jon Lester makes about $500k every time he pitches, win or lose...for 6+ years, with a $30 million signing bonus. The minimum MLB salary is $535k this year. There are literally hundreds of players that no one has ever heard of making that and the best runners make $100k? Jeez.