You're the guy always trumpeting these athletes whose superiority may well be based largely on drugs. Why didn't Kenyans and Ethiopians dominate the world until the Italian coaches arrived, along with EPO, in the 1990s? They were very good and very competitive but could be beaten and often were. Now everyone can run 2:05 or better on the men's side and 1:04-6 halfs on the women's side, while running 30-31 enroute.
It is true that there is a direct line from the Italian coaches in the 1990s bringing the "technology" over from cycling. The time drops in the mid-90s (Komen and Haile G and a bunch of others) were incredible. I cannot believe that we routinely see 2:04s and 2:05s over the last 10 years.
And the whole time Rosa has been there. In fact, lets point out, Kennedy was training with Rosa's group in London in the late '90's when he ran under 13:00. Its not just africans. Anyone even remotely aligned with Rosa has been, at one time or another, under suspicion, and rightly so.
Anyone want to do a 20 year google search for the all the insane records posted by athletes associated with the Rosa family?
rojo wrote:
charles_yo wrote:Rosa has been guilty for years. Years, and years and years. He and his son have been the fire behind all the smoke since the 1990's. Why is this hard to understand.
The woman's winner of Prague? doped to the gills. Seriously, seriously doped. A Flojo record. And its all big time lies.
Rojo, you got played by the niceness, and the liars ability to believe their own lie enough to sell it to everyone else without a moment's hesitation. It doesn't surprise me that Sumgong tested positive, just that she was found out before Mazunak, her being coached by a total drug cheat herself. I found her run even more unbelievable than Sumgong's.
In fact, I find it more unbelievable that the result got publicized, given the IAAF's hiding of positives concerning their money making stars. Letting a high profile gold medalist get caught is clearly not their usual MO.
After 39 years of being a runner, and following world class running since I was a 12 year old kid, I find myself hating this sport sometimes.
Perhaps. I mean I did think about 10 years ago. Cycling = Doping and lots of that comes from Italy right? Rosas = Italian doctors, could all the Kenyans be dirty.
And I hate to say it but this makes me now question my #1 most favorite athlete in track - Asbel Kiprop as isn't he with Rosa as well. And then if we are going to question that, then we might as well question Tergat and hell if he was doped then why wouldn't the one guy who could beat him - Haile G also be doped?
I'm going to quit being a fan.
By similar logic, I guess I need to start questioning Centro jr. I mean if I'm suspicious as hell about Rupp and Centro's in the group.....
Some people are going to try to circumvent the rules. Some will lie to your face. We put out nets to try to catch them. We'll never get 100% but we can get most. The alternative is to not go after them at all and let people kill themselves with drugs.
O.K. Canova we are waiting for your bull**** excuse.
The best runners have the best pharmacists, been going on since I was around in the 70's. Hello Waldo!
Shamika wrote:
I remember Ben Johnson and his coach doing the exact same thing in 1988 after the Olympics.
Rojo, Radcliffe and Coe do exactly the same thing !!!
Wow wow wow wrote:
Shamika wrote:I remember Ben Johnson and his coach doing the exact same thing in 1988 after the Olympics.
Rojo, Radcliffe and Coe do exactly the same thing !!!
well there's an 'eats shoots and leaves' moment
charles_yo wrote:
And the whole time Rosa has been there. In fact, lets point out, Kennedy was training with Rosa's group in London in the late '90's when he ran under 13:00. Its not just africans. Anyone even remotely aligned with Rosa has been, at one time or another, under suspicion, and rightly so.
Anyone want to do a 20 year google search for the all the insane records posted by athletes associated with the Rosa family?
Kenedy was NOT with Rosa. He was with the late Kim Macdonald, an englishman who had strong ties with Vin Lanana. Used to base his kenyans in Palo Alto each spring when Vinny was at Stanford.
Wow wow wow wrote:
Shamika wrote:I remember Ben Johnson and his coach doing the exact same thing in 1988 after the Olympics.
Rojo, Radcliffe and Coe do exactly the same thing !!!
That goes without saying.
Rojo, are you seriously just now questioning Tergat, Haile, Kenny and Centro? Where have you been during the last decades?
douglas burke wrote:
She is scheduled to run the London Marathon on April 23rd, I wonder if she will be able to run?, claiming the B sample has to come up positive to be banned?n
All this hoopla / accusation nonsense is about a preliminary A sample, not a B sample that would be more conclusive.
The Brojos have no shame at all.
If you still think athletics is clean, then you are not just stupid you are MENTALLY ill!
There can be no other explanation.
Sports fans have to be mentally ill.
How many more times do sports fans have to be bitch slapped by reality?
Ha ha ha.
Canova, like trollrunner, will use this as evidence that EPO doesn't help Africans. Obviously. Because she was clean last year and before that, and now started doping because of her weak mind, yet didn't improve at all.
sundown wrote:
You're the guy always trumpeting these athletes whose superiority may well be based largely on drugs. Why didn't Kenyans and Ethiopians dominate the world until the Italian coaches arrived, along with EPO, in the 1990s? They were very good and very competitive but could be beaten and often were. Now everyone can run 2:05 or better on the men's side and 1:04-6 halfs on the women's side, while running 30-31 enroute.
This ^^^^^^
Did those Kenyan runners from the 80's just not care as much as they do now? Because now you got 70 or 80 Africans now running as good or better than the best Africans of the 80's, and some those guys have marginal coaching.
In contrast, you have run crazy country, in Japan, that is extremely dilligent agaisnt doping, that has basically disappeared from the world scene in the same time frame of the African take over. (For reference in 1966, 15 of the top 17 marathon times were japanese)
It makes me feel better when I just eliminate the ethiopian kenyan turkish and russian results from any distance race. And the Jamaicans from any sprint.
sundown wrote:
You're the guy always trumpeting these athletes whose superiority may well be based largely on drugs. Why didn't Kenyans and Ethiopians dominate the world until the Italian coaches arrived, along with EPO, in the 1990s? They were very good and very competitive but could be beaten and often were. Now everyone can run 2:05 or better on the men's side and 1:04-6 halfs on the women's side, while running 30-31 enroute.
Some of them are obviously n drugs as are athletes from all countries including the USA and the cheating will get worse as countries become more secular because people who believe this is the only life we get wont worry about having to explain to God their wrongdoings, I blast cheaters, but not excessively as I have done and thought so much wrong, they are probably angels by comparison.
Anyway if it is all drugs why wouldn't these Italian Coaches use them on Italian runners who were at one time great with Cova, Antibo, Panetta, Baldini etc. If they made stars out of their own countrymen and other Europeans who would be far more marketable than Africans, and if the coaches are getting a percentage of their runners earnings, it would make sense to cheat using European Runners who would make them a LOT more money.
Also Italian and European runners are not only not as good as the Africans, they are not as good as their countrymen and continentmen who are now in their 60's and 70's Example Chris Thompson with his 27:27 for 10000 is about 20th on the European list (Not Counting Africans running for Europe) and Danielle Mucci with his 27:32 (Born 1985) is 35th, these are the only 2 Europeans born after 1980 who have run under 27:45 the qualifying time to get into Worlds.
It would not even look suspicious if they ran faster than their countrymen who were in their prime 30-40 or more years ago.
Wait..... wrote:
All this hoopla / accusation nonsense is about a preliminary A sample, not a B sample that would be more conclusive.
The Brojos have no shame at all.
The B-sample always confirms the A-sample, unless the testing laboratory gets an extra cash bonus and Sebastian Coe gets to take the piss.
I don't want to be asserting a sweeping generalization here, but the more I here about this, the more I think this is the only story over there (and also here in a lot of cases) . I mean if you look when EPO first started coming on the scene, it was the 1960's, right when Kenyan running was starting to take flight. Kipcoge Keino was visiting sports clinics put on by the United States Department of State, something Mal Whitfield was involved in. What I see is a population of people, clutching for any scrap of economic good fortune being exploited by foreign interests.
ummmm.. wrote:
EPO doesn't work for Kenyan elites.
Must be be mistaken.
Weak minded.
I guess she didn't pay the bribe to get it buried.
Also, this does not portend to Kenyans being clean as there are almost zero OOC blood tests. If she got caught in a urinalysis, she failed the IQ test.
My Bad Also Andy Vernon 27:42 # 66 on European list and Arne Gabius #80 have gone under 27:45 the next fastest European born after 1980 (Not including African born) is Ross Millington at 27:55 around 130th on the European list.
Could the major marathons clean up this whole situation by requiring that in order to eligible for prize money the athlete must have submitted to once a month testing (from some kind of professional testers) in the year leading up to their race? Surely they could financially swing this, even just by taking the budget for it out of the prize money.
Anyone not invited to be on the "elite testing list" would have to pay for their own testing from a race-approved tester. The only downside to this in my view is that it would be tougher for someone to break in as an elite who comes from a poor background. Maybe offering reimbursement for someone who paid for their testing if they win prize money would partially resolve this. I want to see some non-E. Africans get in there and mix it up in the distances as much as the next guy, but I also don't want to prevent entry for clean but poor people.
They are all on drugs wrote:
Wait..... wrote:All this hoopla / accusation nonsense is about a preliminary A sample, not a B sample that would be more conclusive.
The Brojos have no shame at all.
The B-sample always confirms the A-sample, unless the testing laboratory gets an extra cash bonus and Sebastian Coe gets to take the piss.
Not true, didn't Bernard Lagats A sample test positive 1 time, but the B sample was negative?