The competition just isn't there for indoor track. Even at World Indoors, there were only two other top 10-ranked competitors in the finals besides Centro -- Willis and Souleiman. At the Olympics there were SIX other top-10 competitors including #1 Kiprop. Centro himself wouldn't even have run Worlds unless it was in Portland. All the other meets mentioned are primarily domestic meets that don't include world class competition. Fine for national ranking, not fine for world ranking.
Co chairman wrote:
I think let's run is correct in using indoor track as part of their ranking criteria. There is a World Championship. We have a national championship. We have world class meets like Millrose. There is a high caliber NCAA Championship.
Centro navigated his way thru indoors taking on all comers, winning everything and running the fastest mile in the world. A time that stood up thru outdoor as a world #1.
Centro navigated his way thru outdoors, overcoming injury and still won everything he ran, including the two meets that mattered MOST.
He is most definitely not a #5. You have got to be kidding me...if I was on that voting panel, I would be embarrassed.
Exactly.
It is this kind of nonsense drivel by Track &Field News that forced me to cancel my subscription in 2005.
My Track & Field News Boycottâ„¢ was just renewed for 2017.
What do you think about doing a Track & Field News boycott?
It is a good idea and it is inexpensive to do.
Stravajo warrior wrote:
Lol and to add fuel to the fire, people have seemed to forget that Slagowski beat Manzano at the Pre race. The fourth best guy in the country was beat by a highschooler. What a world we live in.
This....
macdaddy wrote:
Just popping in to say that Centro's 'World Leading' 3:50.6 miles converts roughly to a 3:33.mid for 1500m - good for roughly 15th on the performance chart (better than his 21st ranked 3:34.09 1500). Talk about the #1 1500/miler!
Again... I'm sure he would take the Olympic gold over anything (who wouldn't), but beating a 40 year old Nick Willis @ the Indoor Champs, not winning a single international outdoor race and not cracking the top 15/20 time in your event does not make you the best runner of the year.
But his 2016 record DOES make him much better than 5th.
He won a disgrace of an Olympic 1500 final that he ran in a time that would have gotten him FIFTH in the blind man's race at the Paralympics.
To be fair, the slow pace was not entirely his fault.
But regardless, no show in international competition other than Rio. Does not serve his sport or his case for #1, 2, 3, or 4 well.
So he ran a fast indoor mile. The fact that anybody lists this as any kind of serious accomplishment goes to show how many baby boom geezers are on these boards, struggling to come to grips with your own advancing irrelevance.
Treasure in Clay wrote:
macdaddy wrote:This is what happens when you dodge competition all year and don't run a top 20 1500 time. Glad to see that T&F News knows what they're talking about.
Matt Centrowitz's Dad knew how to get it done. That plan included skipping meaningless races. Perhaps while those guys were busy getting their second place finishes in the DL, Centrowitz was training?
I like to think that his what I would have done. Do what gets you the medal.
Don't you dare.
That young man did not win due to any advantage in training.
macdaddy wrote:
Just popping in to say that Centro's 'World Leading' 3:50.6 miles converts roughly to a 3:33.mid for 1500m - good for roughly 15th on the performance chart (better than his 21st ranked 3:34.09 1500). Talk about the #1 1500/miler!
Again... I'm sure he would take the Olympic gold over anything (who wouldn't), but beating a 40 year old Nick Willis @ the Indoor Champs, not winning a single international outdoor race and not cracking the top 15/20 time in your event does not make you the best runner of the year.
Nick Willis is not anywhere near 40 years old.
Nick Willis is one of only 8 people to win 2 Olympic 1500m medals, with silver and bronze.
Nick Willis has a 1500m PR of 3:29.66.
Nick Willis is 33 years old.
33 is one of my favorite numbers. It is just a coincidence.
https://www.facebook.com/hypo2/photos/a.181731141864880.32731.154386924599302/1037660399605279/?type=3&theaterhttps://www.facebook.com/hypo2/photos/a.181731141864880.32731.154386924599302/1056106101094042/?type=3&theaterMatt Centrowitz and Nick Willis are two of my favorite runners.
It is just a coincidence.
macdaddy wrote:
Again... I'm sure he would take the Olympic gold over anything (who wouldn't), but beating a 40 year old Nick Willis @ the Indoor Champs, not winning a single international outdoor race and not cracking the top 15/20 time in your event does not make you the best runner of the year.
Back in the day when a youngster named Nick Willis was embarrassing us with great times at 17/18 it was reality check but I'm pretty sure I'm no where near 40 and Nick Willis is younger than me.
JRinaldi wrote:
T&FN rankings have become less and less important in the digital age, so who really cares.
At the end of the day, would you rather have the Olympic Gold or the number 1 ranking with T&F News? As far as shoe contract bonuses, I'm confident the Olympic Gold medal bonus is higher than the world number one ranking bonus.
My 2 cents, he should be ranked 2nd just due tro the fact that he didn't race enough head to head outdoors (being injured at the start of the season and reducing his race load may have been a blessing come Rio).
If we are counting both Indoors and Outdoors, I'd give him the number one spot.
JR
I stand corrected - check with an agent and T&FNews rankings do count in athletes contracts!
JRinaldi wrote:
JRinaldi wrote:T&FN rankings have become less and less important in the digital age, so who really cares.
At the end of the day, would you rather have the Olympic Gold or the number 1 ranking with T&F News? As far as shoe contract bonuses, I'm confident the Olympic Gold medal bonus is higher than the world number one ranking bonus.
My 2 cents, he should be ranked 2nd just due tro the fact that he didn't race enough head to head outdoors (being injured at the start of the season and reducing his race load may have been a blessing come Rio).
If we are counting both Indoors and Outdoors, I'd give him the number one spot.
JR
I stand corrected - check with an agent and T&FNews rankings do count in athletes contracts!
What?
Boycott?
C. Nelson wrote:
But to put him 5th is totally wrong. World indoor title, World outdoor title (Olympic Gold), undefeated in and out on the track at 1500/mile, fastest mile in the world (3:50), Wannamaker mile win...
Centrowitz finished ninth in the 1500m in Portland in June.
Apart from Olympic Gold, Centro showed no signs of being world number 1. It was a surprise to everyone that he won.
He showed great tactics in the final but that doesn't make him ranked number one across the entire year.
Does anyone know how rankings work in snooker or tennis? It is very easy to be ranked 2nd or 3rd and win Wimbledon. Ask Andy Murray.
If you don't race often, such as Ronnie O'Sullivan has decided to not play many snooker matches often lately, you can still win the highest competition in the year. That doesn't then make you number one. You have to win many ranked matches. Centro didn't.
Kiprop #1
Makh #2
Centro #3
It looks like since I lost my wallet and CC changed that my TFN subscription had lapsed. I just renewed but they didnt' email me the digital copy. I guess I'll have to wait until next month???
SO can someone with a subscription please type up their World Top 10 and US Top 10 for the 1500?
The logic behind it seems crazy is Manzano is 4th in anything.
As for Honors Won. Why wouldn't World Indoor gold count?
Take away the cameras, medals and hype the Olympic 1500 is just another race on the Diamond League schedule. In that context Centro's performance was very good but not great. He had a very good season but others had better and he was ranked accordingly. His full potential will be seen in the 5000.
It is not as if Centro medaling was a surprise. His record prior to the Olympics included World indoor gold in 2016, World bronze in 2011, World Silver in 2013, and 4th at the Olympics in 2012. He had been beaten out by the incredible field at Beijing in 2015 World's and obviously at fast Diamond League races in the past. Add to the World Indoor Gold and the Olympic Gold last year, the 3:50 mile and the 3:49 5th Ave. Mile. Just because Kiprop and a few others decide to go continent hopping throughout the months prior to the major championships does not give them a pass for the majors.
Consider this list as the outdoor track season rankings.
Here are the Diamond League Results, which are objectively scored by results:
Rank Name Nation Points Doha (QAT) 6 MAY Rome (ITA) 2 JUN Birmingham (GBR) 5 JUN Oslo (NOR) 9 JUN Monaco (MON) 15 JUL Lausanne (SUI) 25 AUG Brussels (BEL) 8 SEP
1 KIPROP Asbel KEN - 42 - 10 (1.) 10 (1.) 10 (1.) 1 (6.) 3 (4.) 8 (3.)
2 MANANGOI Elijah Motonei KEN - 28 - 6 (2.) 10 (1.) 6 (2.) 6 (2.)
3 IGUIDER Abdelaati MAR - 21- 6 (2.) 3 (4.) 12 (2.)
4 CHERUIYOT Timothy KEN - 20 - 20 (1.)
5 MAKHLOUFI Taoufik ALG -14 -4 (3.) 4 (3.) 6 (4.)
5 BIWOTT Robert KEN - 14 - 6 (2.) 6 (2.) 2 (6.)
7 GREGSON Ryan AUS - 7 - 4 (3.) 1 (6.) 2 (5.)
8 INGEBRIGTSEN Filip NOR - 4 4 (5.)
8 BIRGEN Bethwell KEN - 4 - 3 (4.) 1 (6.)
10 KIBET Vincent KEN -3 - 3 (4.)
11 GRICE Charlie GBR - 1 - 1 (6.)
Centro scored zero.
You can't give the top ranking to someone who scored zero on the season AND didn't run a top 20 time for the year.
Here are the years were the Olympic 1500m champ was ranked #1 or not in the world for the season:
2016 No - Centro won, Kiprop #1
2012 No - Makhloufi won, Kiplagat #1
2008 No - Kiprop won, Keitany #1
2004 No - El Guerrouj won, Lagat #1
2000 No - Ngeny won, El G #1
1996 Yes - Morceli, Morceli
1992 No - Cacho won, Morceli #1
1988 No - Rono won, Cram #1
1984 No - Coe won, Aouita #1
1980 No - Coe won, Elliot #1
So what is so special about Centro's victory in 3:50 and his yearly best of 3:34 that ranked 21 and was 5 seconds behind the leader that compels people to think he had a better comparable season than all of those Olympic champions that failed to rank #1?
jjjjjjj wrote:
It is not as if Centro medaling was a surprise. His record prior to the Olympics included World indoor gold in 2016, World bronze in 2011, World Silver in 2013, and 4th at the Olympics in 2012. He had been beaten out by the incredible field at Beijing in 2015 World's and obviously at fast Diamond League races in the past. Add to the World Indoor Gold and the Olympic Gold last year, the 3:50 mile and the 3:49 5th Ave. Mile. Just because Kiprop and a few others decide to go continent hopping throughout the months prior to the major championships does not give them a pass for the majors.
It can quite literally give them a pass to the majors. IAAF wildcards. Winner of the DL doesn't need to bother with their countries selection process.
Not to mention that if you make the effort continent hopping and win many high ranking events against the best the world has to offer, then you should get a high world ranking.
People are acting like world number 1 is simply just the Olympic champ and nothing else matters. If that is the case then don't bother with the rankings. They are sorted out in the final.
Les wrote:
women's 1500 rankings wrote:How about the Women's 1500m rankings? Rowbury ranked 3rd in the world and 1st in the US ahead of Simpson??
Simpson beat her at USAs and the Olympics...what else matters?
Again, domestic results like Olympic trials don't count in WORLD rankings. In international meets, Simpson beat Rowbury at Pre and in the Olympics but lost to her at the Paris Diamond League (where Muir ran 3:55) and in the Zurich Diamond League final, which Rowbury won. So the head to head was 2-2, but Rowbury had 23 Diamond League points to 11 for Simpson (winning the Diamond League final counts for double points.) Simpson did not win a Diamond League race. Probably a very close call for T&FN to make.
1) If Track and Field News doesn't want to count indoors I can understand that but disagree with it. We want to rank the best miler/1500 m runners of the world for 2017 so we include all the races, indoor and out. Indoors has less importance but World Indoors is a big one on the calendar. (Centro's case was unique as we want to reward people who race on the biggest stage. He had the biggest win of the year indoors and out, but almost nothing else of importance internationally).
However, you are telling me Track and Field News doesn't weight the Olympic Trials when calculating international rankings? I think you are mistaken. If that really is the case it's a huge mistake on Track and Field News part. It's a huge meet for US runners and of great importance. They say of utmost importance is Honors won. Winning a US title is a big deal, plus it is a head to head win.
Even ignoring the Trials you could argue Simpson over Rowbury for US #1. It just depends on how much you want to weight things. You could say Simpson beat Rowbury in the biggest race of the year. Rowbury beat Simpson in the 2nd biggest race of year and the each beat each other in one other race. Advantage Simpson.
If you factor in Rowbury won the 2nd biggest race of year internationally then maybe that tips it to Rowbury (ignoring the Trials) but that doesn't account for the fact Simpson got an Olympic medal and Rowbury didn't. A big question is how much do you weigh an Olympic medal?
If you view it as Simpson got third in a biggest race of the year and Rowbury 4th maybe you don't have to move Simpson up. But if the Olympic medal (honor won) gets a lot of weight I think Simpson is ahead of Rowbury without the Trials factoring in.
They should factor in the Trials in the rankings (can someone really confirm they don't do this?) and then it's not much of a debate in my mind- Simpson over Rowbury.
macdaddy wrote:
Just popping in to say that Centro's 'World Leading' 3:50.6 miles converts roughly to a 3:33.mid for 1500m - good for roughly 15th on the performance chart (better than his 21st ranked 3:34.09 1500). Talk about the #1 1500/miler!
Again... I'm sure he would take the Olympic gold over anything (who wouldn't), but beating a 40 year old Nick Willis @ the Indoor Champs, not winning a single international outdoor race and not cracking the top 15/20 time in your event does not make you the best runner of the year.
Nick Willis is 40 years old and the olympics isn't an international race. What a world we live in
Not all Trials races are equal.
100H in US are world class.