HRE wrote:
I don't know how much time you've spent on this board, but for years we've had people here asking, maybe even demanding, that people in the sport who know what's going on say something. Now that's begun happening and the counterpoint is "Prove it," or "S/he is just an attention whore."
Except Magness doesn't know what's going on. And he never actually accused Salazar/NOP of doping. Despite all his inside information, he's only full of hot air.
Gorgon's Zola wrote:
They basically told the E. Africans it was OK to dope with the way Aden, the Rosas, and some others were handled. You can bet that if some European or Japanese (or Yank) is caught doping they'll be marched front and center to be pilloried.
Aden hasn't been allowed to leave the country while the case works its way through the courts.
What was Kenya supposed to do with Rosa? He was jailed on a single person's testimony. They had to let him go. If they have multiple statements, corroborating statements, and records of illegal activities, then please schedule the court date. But you can't jail someone indefinitely or bring them to court with that as your only evidence.
TrackBot! Prs Steve Magness
PRs for Steve Magness:
800 m (Outdoor): 1:52.12 on 25 Mar 2006
800 m (Indoor): 1:54.44 on 23 Feb 2007
1500 m (Outdoor): 3:43.87+ on 24 May 2003
One Mile (Outdoor): 4:01.02 on 24 May 2003
One Mile (Indoor): 4:03.34 OT on 5 Mar 2005
5000 m (Outdoor): 14:21.49 on 31 Mar 2007
7 miles (Outdoor): 35:47 on 24 Jul 2010
I am a bot. Info:
I said "for many East Africans". Not for all.
But you tell me how many OOC tests have been carried in ETH last preseason.
You can't, because the testing was "poor" (almost inexistent giving the quantity of world elites training there)
http://fittish.deadspin.com/wada-discovers-world-record-factory-ethiopia-does-almos-1769983123
And tell me how is that WADA removed Kenya from the World Anti-Doping Code’s non-compliant list.
Precious Roy wrote:
clover wrote:This is funny to read when his athlete qualified for the semi-finals in the Olympics a few hours ago.
Oh, letsrun, how I love you.
Only on letsrun would there be more hate on a guy who has tried to clean up the sport than on an athlete who has turned in a highly questionable performance amidst major doping scandals from E. Africa.
Genzebe and Ayana have blown the doors off of distance running the past few years. It just does not seem possible that lightening can strike twice the way these two have come on the scene to run circles around the competition and take down previously doped WRs.
Clean up the sport? Nothing that happened today was surprising. His comments are rather idiotic. Is she on drugs? Quite possibly and likely and everyone already suspected that. Does her performance today indicate that? No more than what we've been seeing the past two years from the top Ethiopians. 30 flat is a joke for a 14:12 runner who clearly can go closer to 14 flat if she ever had someone push her. Let alone at her peak at the olympics. The extra outrage over this race is stupid and Magness posts show a lack of knowledge of the sport.
His testosterone comments about Rupp show a severe lack of intelligence in general.
Anyone know where that 7-mile race is? I think running an "official" 7-mile race would be fun.
Toni Reavis with similar sentiments:
HRE wrote:
Crying wolf seems to be all that's left. When you have every agency that's supposed to control doping in the sport run by people whose concern is preserving the sport's image and taking bribes rather than identifying and removing cheaters the only recourse I can see is to make so much noise about the issue that the people concerned more with preserving the sport's image see that they've failed to do so and that the only way to restore the image is to go ahead and actually identify and remove PED users.
I don't know how much time you've spent on this board, but for years we've had people here asking, maybe even demanding, that people in the sport who know what's going on say something. Now that's begun happening and the counterpoint is "Prove it," or "S/he is just an attention whore."
Where Magness is clearly right is that there is NO trust. If there was we wouldn't have these sorts of discussions. Yes, it's unfair if this was a legitimate performance but that's not Magness' fault and he's making a legitimate point that many others who know the sport well are making..
Crying wolf is all that's left? What are you talking about? There is a lot going on to try and improve things. Just because it hasn't been cleared up yet doesn't mean it's hopeless. I sat in the stadium and watched the Soviet Union imperiously march in to the Olympic stadium in 1952 when the Cold War was darker than dark. One could not have imagined we would ever get out of the global stalemate short of nuclear conflict. But 1989 came. In sport, I saw the days in the 1970s when top officials would stay in beautiful hotels and our best athletes would stare a tub in a flea bag hotel. People said "track will be amateur forever." But that era came to an end. People once said you could never overturn the divine right of kings. If you are going to get out of bed in the morning, you have a responsibility to acknowledge the people who are working to change things for the better. Lamine Diack was an absolute fcking crook--but there are people in the sport working very hard to make this sport better. Steve Magness is not among them.
George Hirsch wrote:
sdfsfgasfd wrote:Who cares what you have against Magness, his observations are right. That race was absurdly doped. No way Huddle should have been so far back running such an incredible time.
Prove it.
See you in 7-10 years when yet another doping scandal forces the IAAF/IOC to dust off a few bad apples from 2016.
Sarah Lahti, who PR'd in this race, called out Ayana as a doper.
The thoughts keep coming.
pop_pop!_v2.2.1 wrote:
George Hirsch wrote:Prove it.
See you in 7-10 years when yet another doping scandal forces the IAAF/IOC to dust off a few bad apples from 2016.
See you when you finally admit you just cant stand seeing Africans outrun white people.
bobgob wrote:
Remind us again why Steve Magness is famous? Being a great coach? An excellent Journalist perhaps? No, he came to people's attention because of the accusations he made against Salazar and Rupp.
So why are you surprised he's accusing/insinuating that Ayana is doping?
It's what Magness is know for. It's what he does best.
Hmm... you've got a point there.
Let's face it; the women's WR in the 10000 was long overdue to go down. Mostly because the 10000 is almost dead outside championsships. Improvement has been standing still for twenty years.
Standout Tirunesh Dibaba was only challenged once in her entire pre-baby career and Melkamesh (world nr 2 so far with 29:53) was never a threat to her in champ races.
Ben L Wrong wrote:
I said "for many East Africans". Not for all.
Which ones?
Ben L Wrong wrote:
But you tell me how many OOC tests have been carried in ETH last preseason.
IAAF publishes testing numbers postseason. Here's 2015's information
https://www.iaaf.org/download/download?filename=95282d10-3260-4ff9-820c-b3c6282f0ea9.pdf&urlslug=2015%20Testing%20StatisticsI am not a Magness supporter in the slightest for the simple reason he attempted to take away the champ's title on a TKO. When you have a beef with Superman, you don't pull on his cape, you need kryptonite, if you don't have any kryptonite, you best leave Superman alone.
With that said, I have to agree with Magness on the Ayana situation. Point blank, Ayana dominated the strongest 10k field in history and made it look too easy. Also, Ayana is like Genzebe, in Ethiopia her victories are barely celebrated and the other Ethiopian athletes seem to keep their distance from her. Ethiopians know there is something toxic about Genzebe and Ayana.
George Hirsch wrote:
He is not in a position to know this. He is seriously detracting from the overall effort against cheating by making claims he has zero ability to back up. He dos not work for the IAAF.
I think Magness is hurting the antidoping fight by saying that and I say that as an admirer of his. You can't just say something is laughable because it's fast.
To me, a coach should know the idea that a 14:05 athlete (and come on she's run 14:12 with horrible pacing) running 29:17for 10k isn't that shocking. So unless you were already calling her a doper before tonight, you shouldn't be doing it now.
At cornell, we had a couple guys run faster than 29:17 and none of them were sub 14:00 in the 5000.
We're about to update our 10k recap with this sentiment.
http://www.letsrun.com/news/2016/08/history-rio-almaz-ayana-smashes-womens-10000-world-record-2917-45-greatest-womens-10000-ever-molly-huddle-breaks-american-record-6th/Here is what we wrote:
LRCwrote:
Whenever a seemingly unbreakable record is broken, one that was set by someone who may have confessed to doping, people are going to speculate whether the new mark is itself legitimate. We hadn’t even finished recapping the race and the messageboard was already exploding with speculation (Ayana 10,000 Meter WR!!! 29:17:46 *Who in the top 8 isnt doping? Rio 10k)
Here’s why Ayana’s mark could be legitimate. First, she’s already run 14:12 for 5000 this year. Greg McMillan’s conversion calculator converts today’s 29:17 to a 14:06, which certainly is a time that seems doable for Ayana if you’ve watched any of her poorly rabbitted WR attempts at 5000. So if you weren’t already accusing Ayana of being on drugs before today’s run, you shouldn’t just start because she 29:17 as already was in the ballpark equivalent of the old world record.
Then you add in the variables. Today’s weather — mid-60’s and still — was great for running fast. Ayana had a de facto rabbit for the first half of the race in Nawowuna.
At the post race press conference, the Ethiopian translator called Nawowuna a pacer saying, “(Ayana) was comfortable with the pacerâ€.
Ayana ran that 14:12 in early June and has had an extra two months to peak. And it’s very possible Ayana is a better 10k runner than 5k, so those equivalencies may not be generous enough.
Plus, there have been very few races in history where the world’s top 10,000 runners have gotten together and tried to run fast. Before today, six of the 10 fastest women’s 10k’s in history had been run in championship finals, and those races are usually run in hot conditions without a rabbit. Today was a rare opportunity with great weather and an unofficial rabbit. Ayana in the only second 10,000 of her life took full advantage.
Not everyone is a believer, however. Sweden’s Sarah Lahti, who was 12th in 31:28.43 (a national record), suggested Ayana was not clean after the race. Ayana was asked for comment and, through a translator, responded as follows:
“Three basic things. I did my training, specially 500 and 10,000. Number two, I praise the Lord. God has given me everything, every blessing. My doping is my training. My doping is Jesus. Otherwise, nothing. I am crystal clear.â€
Huddle, when asked for her thoughts on Ayana’s time, said:
“These places might be a bit mobile…Who knows? That’s a very, very fast time.â€
Jeff Wigand wrote:
IAAF publishes testing numbers postseason. Here's 2015's information
https://www.iaaf.org/download/download?filename=95282d10-3260-4ff9-820c-b3c6282f0ea9.pdf&urlslug=2015%20Testing%20Statistics
Thank god that Chicherova passed his +4 tests. Look at Lashmanova, and the rest of the Russians who later came up positives. Testing is a joke.
Ben L Wrong wrote:
Thank god that Chicherova passed his +4 tests. Look at Lashmanova, and the rest of the Russians who later came up positives. Testing is a joke.
When RUSADA is helping the cheaters. What suggestions would you have for improving testing?
She was pushed once in 2008 by Elvan A who was recently suspended for doping.
Peter Andersson wrote:
Let's face it; the women's WR in the 10000 was long overdue to go down. Mostly because the 10000 is almost dead outside championsships. Improvement has been standing still for twenty years.
Standout Tirunesh Dibaba was only challenged once in her entire pre-baby career and Melkamesh (world nr 2 so far with 29:53) was never a threat to her in champ races.