Why is Heat 2 of the men's 1500 so much harder tonight?

SOMEONE will be in the lead but will that person be running fast?

As I said, Blankenship lead his heat in a slow pace.

Of the top guys, I agree Centro is the only one that would lead at a decent pace. He lead in the semis in the 2011 WC and won his heat.

But I still don't think he leads at all in the first two laps, and a fast time could be out the window by then.

They may have to count on ole Dusty Solis again like the one poster said.

He's not making the finals so might as well get some camera time.

Heat 1 should go for the Olympic standard. Much easier than doing it in the final and it's likely someone with the standard won't even make the final.

CWRP wrote:

The seeding is base on times from the preliminary. They "snake" the seed times.

d

We have seen it time and time again. Everyone thinks they can outkick everyone else and that plays into the hands of guys like Andrews and Centro so nobody seems to want to take their heat hard. I could see the winner of Heat 1 going in 3:45-3:46 with a big bunch with him and Heat 2 will be 3:41-2 because there are some better kickers in that race. I don't see either heat going that hard.

I disagree. People in heat one will think, 'Wow, I got lucky, all the top runners are in the other heat.. I can out kick all of these suckers.'

It is not necessarily that everyone thinks they can outkick everyone else even though that may be true as no one at this level is a :60 400 guy. However, whoever leads and sets a fast pace is almost guaranteed to fail to qualify. Everyone in the field is pretty equal except the few stars and they know they can outkick others. Why would anyone set up the race for others limiting themselves by leading fast?

EXACTLY. I could just as easily imagine that everyone in heat 1 now thinks that they can kick and finish in the top 5 with all of the studs being in heat 2, so they cruise for 1100m.

I'm prefused with that rule wrote:

nuttier than saying a few Hightower votes verses dozens and dozens of Hersh votes means Hightower wins.

This was settled.

The rules say the Board makes the appointment not the general membership.

Move on.

When Hightower turns 75 they will fire her too.

Since someone is posting on the USATF official facebook page asking for someone to come onto this thread and explain about seeding in the 1500, I repeat this: It is rule 166 1.d.ii.b

Starter wrote:

USATF is following their rules which have been in place for at least the past four years. The rule states for events up to 400 seeding in heats after the first is based on place. For longer events seeding is based on best performance in the calendar year including times run in the prelims. Remember Wheating didn't even meet the qualifying time but was accepted to fill the field.

HardLoper wrote:

Heat 1 should go for the Olympic standard. Much easier than doing it in the final and it's likely someone with the standard won't even make the final.

Agreed.

Also I chuckled at this - "..may as well get some camera time..."

Agreed, relatively speaking they won't be "fast" but if the guys in heat 1 have any sense at all they'll push the pace. They're gonna need the time qualifiers not to mention, many don't even have the Oly standard. I really hope it goes that way. A fast Heat 1 makes the whole thing much more interesting tonight. If it goes only 3:42-3:44 in Heat 1, pretty much the entire Heat 2 can qual and that's not as much fun to watch.

Time and Time Again wrote:

I could see the winner of Heat 1 going in 3:45-3:46 with a big bunch with him and Heat 2 will be 3:41-2 because there are some better kickers in that race. I don't see either heat going that hard.

nigel power wrote:

EXACTLY. I could just as easily imagine that everyone in heat 1 now thinks that they can kick and finish in the top 5 with all of the studs being in heat 2, so they cruise for 1100m.

Unfortunately, yes, Heat 1 may indeed go that way, but really stupid on their part for many reasons. Ensures on the top finishers move on with zero time qualifiers and nothing anywhere near an Oly standard. Also makes Heat 2 a farce.

Lonely hero wrote:

I disagree. People in heat one will think, 'Wow, I got lucky, all the top runners are in the other heat.. I can out kick all of these suckers.'

Yeah, if so, Literally gonna be a 100m race -- or less. May as well just have Heat 1 run a 100m sprint to see who moves on to the final. It's the same thing, hahaha.

Well Engels, Phillips, Merber and Yorks have the best 800m times and likely the fastest turnover.

So, if it goes that way (jog fest for first 1100m) it likely comes down to these four finishing in the top spots. Not surprising. Here's my guess for Heat 1 finish:

1. Engels 3:40-41 ish

2. Yorks

3. Merber

4. Phillips

...the rest. 3:42+

That would leave most of the time qualifiers to come from Heat 2.

Kiprop looks like preymantis wrote:

nigel power wrote:

EXACTLY. I could just as easily imagine that everyone in heat 1 now thinks that they can kick and finish in the top 5 with all of the studs being in heat 2, so they cruise for 1100m.

Unfortunately, yes, Heat 1 may indeed go that way, but really stupid on their part for many reasons. Ensures on the top finishers move on with zero time qualifiers and nothing anywhere near an Oly standard. Also makes Heat 2 a farce.

Could you explain to me how it makes more sense to push the pace in a weak field heat 1 than it would in a normal field heat 1?

Starter wrote:

Since someone is posting on the USATF official facebook page asking for someone to come onto this thread and explain about seeding in the 1500, I repeat this: It is rule 166 1.d.ii.b

Starter wrote:

USATF is following their rules which have been in place for at least the past four years. The rule states for events up to 400 seeding in heats after the first is based on place. For longer events seeding is based on best performance in the calendar year including times run in the prelims. Remember Wheating didn't even meet the qualifying time but was accepted to fill the field.

Thank you for the first post and then adding the rule cite

Tom Hyland

nigel power wrote:

Kiprop looks like preymantis wrote:

Unfortunately, yes, Heat 1 may indeed go that way, but really stupid on their part for many reasons. Ensures on the top finishers move on with zero time qualifiers and nothing anywhere near an Oly standard. Also makes Heat 2 a farce.

Could you explain to me how it makes more sense to push the pace in a weak field heat 1 than it would in a normal field heat 1?

If you don't push the pace in Heat 1 the only the top finishers move to the final. The stronger and faster guys in heat 2 will take all the time qualifiers. Plus NO ONE in heat one even has the Oly Standard. They may as well shut it down now if they're not going to even try to run a fast heat.

live coverage in 14 mins wrote:

Could you explain to me how it makes more sense to push the pace in a weak field heat 1 than it would in a normal field heat 1?

[/quote]

Heat 3 of the 1500m was a PERFECT example of what I'm talking about. The 2nd heat went super slow, like 4 min pace until the last lap. So guess what happened. EVERYONE in Heat 3 with Centro made the semifinal. And now all those guys in Heat 2 who d*cked around running 3:5X are sitting at home watching the semis. That's WHY you run hard -- so even if you miss place, you get in on time. I know it's a crazy concept for LRC but it works.

live coverage in 14 mins wrote:

That's WHY you run hard -- so even if you miss place, you get in on time.

The person setting the pace will be the one to NOT make it 9 times out of 10. Your premise is flawed.