Daphne Schippers Swollen Beyond Recognition

dumbfukaree wrote:

8FE wrote:

I saw her up close and personal in Doha, and she is quite laced with acne on cheeks and upper back.

I think this is the pic,

http://dafneschippers.nl/toptijd-van-10-83-in-doha/?lang=en

Will check when I get home.

What's your point? I just saw this picture and saw Schippers and three other even more beastly man-women. Certainly looks most feminine to me.

all dopers too!

the only clean ones are "allison failix" and justin gatlin. Oh yeah and that other one, the old skinny guy, mel gayzefilgy.

8FE wrote:

Look, it's a man!!!!!!!

http://www.zimbio.com/photos/Dafne+Schippers/FBK+Games+Hengelo/DuNy4tYZSPG

I don't see an apple....

If she'd stuck to heptathlon this discussion wouldn't be happening.

You should read this lengthy piece about Priscilla Lopes-Schleip. At the very least skim it.

https://www.propublica.org/article/muscular-dystrophy-patient-olympic-medalist-same-genetic-mutation

Here is a picture of her (she makes Schippers look like a weakling):

http://www.girlswithmuscle.com/557088/Priscilla-Lopes-Schliep

A Canadian hurdler, she looks like the most obvious doper I've ever seen. She got drug tested like crazy, but never tested positive. Turns out she has an incredibly rare variant of a gene that gives her incredible muscle size and definition for a woman.

I am one of the most outspoken people on the boards that doping is rampant in all sports, not just track, but this case shook me up. How many other elites have special genetic variants like her? Not them all, but a few could.

It's why rather than physique alone, I look for two other factors before I suspect doping: affiliation with coaches who are involved in it and improvement curves that seem unnatural. Schippers to my knowledge doesn't have either.

I'm not ruling it out, but I don't think it's an open and shut case.

Lrc and the population in general are so dumb when it comes to "gender". It doesn't exist. Sex is not black and white. Biology and development is fluid and plastic and produces unexpected phenomenon. Rare in a population, but always there if you look close enough at a lot of events.

It's tough when we try to fit those things in the defined construct of men's vs women's sports.

So, Mr. Know it all, how come Bobby Kersee has never been busted?

God help us all if Clerk is ever on a jury.

With all due respect what you quoted is not evidence it's conjecture,

Was the great US sprinter Carl Lewis a doper because he wore braces at a later than normal age? Was he a doper because he beat Ben Johnson was an admitted doper?

We'd all like to hear your opinion on that.

Runfastrunfar wrote:

I am assuming this is a troll post, but I will bite.

Here are the facts:

Daphne has been fast for a very, very, very long time. If you know anything about her career or the multi-events you will know she has always been blazingly fast.

She had to give up being a hept. because of ankle issues aggravated by high jumping.

Her very slight uptick in size is a result of not having to deal with the long jump, high jump, and 800m where this can be an issue.

She and her coach have a clean and good reputation among the hept. community. Jessica Ennis and her coach no less stated as such at the 2015 Worlds - look it up on Youtube.

Finally, it is in incredibly poor form to speculate about her. Are you an endocrinologist; are you her doctor?

A few things:

1. I agree with you that being big and strong is not an indication of doping. In fact, having a boyish figure is actually a gift as a female athlete.

2. A 100m dash puts as much stress on the ankles as the high jump.

3. Multi event athletes usually get smaller when they start focusing on an individual running or jumping event. It is highly unusual for a former heptathlete to get bigger when they no longer have to throw. Carolina Kluft is a good example of this.

4. In this day-and-age, Schippers deserves speculation about her cleanliness. I understand naivete perhaps a Dutch citizen would have towards a nation hero, but only a Dutch citizen -or a fool would without question assume Schippers is clean. Schippers physical changes and performance improvements are inline with other athletes people speculate about.

5. I mentioned in a thread almost a year ago that I showed a picture of Schippers to two fitness models/bodybuilders who workout at my local Y. Both of these girls said with in seconds that it is almost impossible for an estrogenized female to achieve a Schippers' type physique without living in the weight room and/or some chemical help. Albeit, they also said there are some rare low-e type women who can gain manly type muscle.

With all of that said, I have absolutely no factual knowledge to suggest Schippers is dirty and feel that she deserves the right to compete and be admired for her performances.

re: "... when it comes to gender... it doesn't exist. Sex is not black and white.";You may just as well argue that:

"the atmosphere and sea do not exist. They are, after all, composed of fluids and vapors composed of many of the same elements and compounds. As such, the false atmosphere-sea categorization is a useless construct."

What a tiresome, unhelpful pile of nonsense. But please continue your bloviations.

Hi TrackCoach:

I will address your points you validly brought up.

1. I agree with you that being big and strong is not an indication of doping. In fact, having a boyish figure is actually a gift as a female athlete.

Agreed, android hips in girls and women is definitely an advantage.

2. A 100m dash puts as much stress on the ankles as the high jump.

It depends on the nature of the injury but there is significantly more pronation on the take-off foot in high jumping then when running the curve. Ankle injuries in high jumpers are common and have hampered and ended many a career. Ennis had to jump off her other foot rather than continue.

3. Multi event athletes usually get smaller when they start focusing on an individual running or jumping event. It is highly unusual for a former heptathlete to get bigger when they no longer have to throw. Carolina Kluft is a good example of this.

Carolina Kluft moved to the jumps (long/triple) where weight is definitely a factor. In "pure" sprints not so much. Just look at the "elite" and world-class long and triple jumpers and then look at the elite and world-class sprinters. The sprinters as a group are larger/more muscular then the long and triple jump crew.

Her coach also stated that she added another day of "heavy" lifting.

4. In this day-and-age, Schippers deserves speculation about her cleanliness. I understand naivete perhaps a Dutch citizen would have towards a nation hero, but only a Dutch citizen -or a fool would without question assume Schippers is clean. Schippers physical changes and performance improvements are inline with other athletes people speculate about.

I have no issue with the speculation. The issue I have is people "knowing" she is cheating based on her looks.

NB: The speculation I was referring to and did not make clear in my previous post (upon further review) was that Dafne is implied to be more masculine than the average woman.

Many girls and women shy away from sports specifically because they do not want to be stereotyped or branded with the "tomboy" label. This does does not help.

Oak

EmilyPost wrote:

Ima milk the cow wrote:

It's that good Holstein milk. You are what you eat.

If you've been to Holland you'd know the Dutch are very big people, bigger than anywhere I've been except maybe Samoa where they are wide, and not tall.

I have the TFN issue here and I see a woman, strong like bull maybe, but a chick.

The last Caucasian woman to run as fast as her was…?

I agree. But I grew up in that era so maybe it's more obvious to us than the younger generation?

July page 30 is the only Shippers picture and it is too small to be able to draw any valid conclusions from.

I grant you it is not the most flattering shot. She is clearly showing her straining to get to the line, she does not look as relaxed as she should. Post another picture that exemplifies you conclusion.

knofosho wrote:

http://media.aws.iaaf.org/media/LargeL/2d73a367-3f59-405b-8ac2-b1f28d1569d8.jpg?v=-1388943368

I haven't seen the photo in question, however, the above link/photo reveals her intense steroid pattern acne all over her shoulders, triceps and back. This photo is proof of hormonal manipulation, full muscles, rounded shape, no sinew or striation, filled with water, steroid patterned acne which is also on her cheeks. "She's got the look" and her times are further evidence.

Lol so on LetsRun no striation means roids, but too much striation means hgh or thyroid.

Mmkay.

Clerk wrote:

Parbuster wrote:

Innocent until proven guilty. Let's give her the benefit of the doubt until we have evidence to prove otherwise.

Just because she is larger and more muscular than most women is not proof of use.

There is evidence. Just because it's not evidence you like doesn't mean it doesn't exist:

-Faster than known dopers

-Dutch doping culture

-Track and Field's doping culture

-Physical attributes commonly resultant from doping

Sorry but track's doping culture is a meaningless statement here

Huh Wha Huh wrote:

re: "... when it comes to gender... it doesn't exist. Sex is not black and white.";You may just as well argue that:

"the atmosphere and sea do not exist. They are, after all, composed of fluids and vapors composed of many of the same elements and compounds. As such, the false atmosphere-sea categorization is a useless construct."

What a tiresome, unhelpful pile of nonsense. But please continue your bloviations.

1975 called...

Somebody said Samoans are wide but not tall, my God go and watch a S. Auckland club rugby match (in any age group) they're all like 6-1 to 6-6. Them and Tongans are massive (and Fijians and Solomon Islanders and Cook Islanders and.....)

I have a list of those who I'm suspicious of:

Caster

Makloufi

Schippers

Dibaba

Mo

Paula

All Jamaican sprinters

All Nigerian sprinters

All American sprinters/hurdlers

All Russians

All Ukrainians

All Moroccans

Van Niekerk

Kirani James

I'm still waiting for someone to come up with a photo that actually shows Schippers' alleged steroidal acne. Haven't seen one yet.

Mope Dealer wrote:

Somebody said Samoans are wide but not tall, my God go and watch a S. Auckland club rugby match (in any age group) they're all like 6-1 to 6-6. Them and Tongans are massive (and Fijians and Solomon Islanders and Cook Islanders and.....)

I have a list of those who I'm suspicious of:

Caster

Makloufi

Schippers

Dibaba

Mo

Paula

All Jamaican sprinters

All Nigerian sprinters

All American sprinters/hurdlers

All Russians

All Ukrainians

All Moroccans

Van Niekerk

Kirani James

Why Van NIekerk? Because he's good?