That's what always got me. Just unbelievable performances from some people that you can't help but be suspicious about. And look at the countries that they're from; bribes? corrupt anti-doping?
Qatar 2022 world cup....
That's what always got me. Just unbelievable performances from some people that you can't help but be suspicious about. And look at the countries that they're from; bribes? corrupt anti-doping?
Qatar 2022 world cup....
1/1/xx is just morse code for "we have no real idea", so it's honest in that way.
TrackCoach wrote:
Renato Canova wrote:When I speak about "sophisticated doping" I face the opinion of a lot of people here, thinking that everybody is doped, "but they know how avoid to be caught.
I absolutely respect what you have to say and appreciate your contributions to this board. You provide us with honest and straight forward answers to questions about the internals of elite athletics that we don't get from anywhere else. Anyone who knows your background would be wise to listen to what you have to say. However, reading your post overtime, I realize you only know what you know. With all due respect, your expertise is in coaching, designing training systems and working with African athletes, but your knowledge of doping is lacking. I think that has been proven.
A separate issue.
Females:
Salwa Eid Naser, Bahrain (51.63 ); Habitam Alemu, Ethiopia (1:59.14).
Males:
Abdullah Abkar Mohammed, Saudi Arabia (10.04) DOB: 1/1/1997; Baboloki Thebe, Botswana (44.22 ); Abdalelah Haroun, Qatar (44.27) DOB: 1/1/1997; Abadi Embaye, Ethiopia (13:02.49), DOB: 1/1/1999
What is the background on these incredible junior athletes? How can a 17 year old run a 13:02 5K and appears to have come from out of no where. Why these athlete's name don't appear in any of their country's national age-group or grade school competition results and why are so many athletes born on January 1st?
VAcoach wrote:
First, VAcoach simply refers to the state I coach in.
Secondly, there is nothing in this post that gives any evidence that you understand the economics of professional running in East Africa...very different from the US.
Riddle me this, what are the central components of a running contract for a new runner in Kenya? With whom do these runners enter into contract with?
Of course there is PED use, and it is a tremendous problem, but if you understood the economics of it, you would (a) realize which runners are most likely to use (b) understand that it is not as wide-spread as the mzungu pundits suggest.
BTW you should bow down to me for completely different reasons.
Which part of "Wrong, we do know all those things." didn't you understand.
Ostrich. wrote:
VAcoach wrote:Canova...why do you bother with these guys?
They don't know how management agencies are structured, they don't know how contracts are structured in Kenya as opposed to the US. They don't know the hoops AK has mangement jump through or the risk that managers take in signing and supporting a runner. Nor do they know how hard these athletes work, how long they have to wait to maybe get a pay day. They don't see the level of education many of these runners have and the lack of resources in rural Kenya.
Wrong, we do know all those things.
You chose to ignore one other thing that we also know, but just us but also the IAAF and WADA, and that's PED use. Tip of the iceberg so far?, or is the IAAF and WADA making it all up and the Olympic ban just a publicity seeking idle threat?
Take your head out of the sand and do a bit of research and have a good look around, just because you use the handle of VAcoach doesn't make you some wise sage or oracle that we here should all bow down to.
Ostrich wrote:
[quote]VAcoach wrote:
Riddle me this, what are the central components of a running contract for a new runner in Kenya? With whom do these runners enter into contract with?
WTF how about you tell us and how it relates to whether a "new runner in Kenya" will be tempted to take PEDs or not.
Roelants wrote:
You seem eager to change the subject. Here we have reports that of elite athletes with a coach caught with EPO. Are you here to tell us that the EPO could not work on these athletes too?
He's here to inform you that you're stupid.
Inside Info wrote:
Athletes keep testing positive so they must be getting the drugs somewhere.
Therefore, they're getting the drugs from the Brojos!
West Of The Rest wrote:
1/1/xx is just morse code for "we have no real idea", so it's honest in that way.
What's the fairness in that?
I would assume the main criteria for world juniors is meeting the performance standard and not being over a certain age. Being overage to me is like taking a PED or perhaps even worst. I can't imagine an 18 year old having to compete against a 22 year old per se.
TrackCoach wrote:
West Of The Rest wrote:1/1/xx is just morse code for "we have no real idea", so it's honest in that way.
What's the fairness in that?
I would assume the main criteria for world juniors is meeting the performance standard and not being over a certain age. Being overage to me is like taking a PED or perhaps even worst. I can't imagine an 18 year old having to compete against a 22 year old per se.
If they don't have accurate records of real birth dates, what else would you expect them to do? Also, nobody really cares about world juniors. Why would you? It's less interesting even than high school championship meets.
I was being somewhat tongue-in-cheek. They are being transparent in their not knowing the actual birthdates. What the IAAF decides to do with that is another matter. "Fairness" is a concept that has different meanings around the globe. Would it be "fair" to keep all East Africans out of World Jrs because of unreliable birth records? For some yes, for others, no. It's not as heavy an issue as doping, but it certainly is an issue.
TrackCoach wrote:
West Of The Rest wrote:1/1/xx is just morse code for "we have no real idea", so it's honest in that way.
What's the fairness in that?
I would assume the main criteria for world juniors is meeting the performance standard and not being over a certain age. Being overage to me is like taking a PED or perhaps even worst. I can't imagine an 18 year old having to compete against a 22 year old per se.
I disagree, I think it's great having people like VAcoach on here cos now he's flummoxed us with:
"Riddle me this, what are the central components of a running contract for a new runner in Kenya? With whom do these runners enter into contract with?"
he can now show how clever he is by answering, including a short résumé of his time in Kenya, links, sources, example copy of contracts, and some pics would be nice too.
But you're right about the other stuff, we all know that, FMD, a 12 year old in his moms basement could find all that out in minutes, the contract stuff, not so easy, but VAcoach will come through.
Here's one Kenyan with a nice fat contract http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/36612577
Track Coach, knowing the African situation, I'm not surprised at all about the performances of the athletes you listed.
Salwa Eid Naser didn't come from nowhere. She (supposing her date of birth can be correct) started running when 16, winning 200m and 400m in Cairo during the Arab Championships, in 24"61 and 55"72, in April. After this, she went Bangkok for the Asian Trials for qualifying the athletes of the Area for Youth Olympics, and won both heat (54"50) and final (54"54). In Youth Olympics (Nanjing) she won her heats in 53"95, and was 2nd in the final on 23.08 with 52.74.
Last year, she improved her speed, running 200m in 23"34 during the heats of Bulgarian Champs, and in 23"03 in Plovdiv on 28.06 (when she ran also 11.70 in 100m). About 400m, she started with 53"02 in Doha (10.05), then 52"80 in Sofia (10.06), and after went Cali for the WYCh, winning the title in 51"50. At the end of the season, she won in Mungyeong th World Military Champs, improving again with 51"39.
She is coached by the Bulgarian Yanko Bratanov, who was himself a specialist of 400 HS in the past able running under 50" in 1976.
Bratanov is also the coach of the Nigerian, now Bahreini, Kemi Adekoye, national record holder of both 400m (50.86) and 400 HS (54.12) in 2015.
About the Ethiopian, we need to know how their system is. They train when are in the school, and after the competitions in the school (that you never can find in any website, because are not managed by the Federations, the same in Kenya, and there is not a statistical office in those Countries), if good, they go with some club, or directly under the Federation.
What we know is not really their first competition, but the FIRST OFFICIAL COMPETITION MANAGED OUT OF THE COUNTRY. For example, about Abadi Embaye, he ran several cross country races, that you can't find in any website.
Different issue if we go to contest their official date of birth. This is for true the main problem, since they don't have (because don't need) any document for their normal life, till when they must have their passport. In this case, the official of immigration look at the class they are in the school, giving the year of birth according to a CORRECT frequentation for students starting when 6y old. The problem is that in the peripheral areas (the one producing the best athletes), in many cases children don't start going school before 8-10 years of age, so they have official documents certifying an age 2-4 years younger.
The official activity, out of the Country, of Embaye, till now consists in 4 competitions of 5000m, one in 2015 (13:13.17 in Heusden), and 3 this year (13:02.49 in Shanghai, 13:04.95 in Hengelo and 13:11.45 in Oslo), never finishing better than 4th, and this is something absolutely normal for a talented African runner, officially 17 but probably 20, training with a group of athletes used running under 13'.
What I think is that we could have in Europe or US "spontaneous" training group like in Kenya and Ethiopia, we could have many athletes around 13' without any problem. In Africa, if you are young and go in one of the training groups (and, of course, you are talented), the kind of athletics you know is only that one : tough training, long run fast every time after few minutes jogging, fast tests on track without taking care of recovery times, and common mentality that 3'33", 13', 27', 60' in HM and 2:08' in Marathon are common times, that you have to reach if you want to go Europe or US for running.
So, no mental limits for the level of performances or for quantity and intensity of training. With these premises, what can make the difference is if they have a good coach for their career, and if they serious in their life.
Unlike Renato it looks like VAcoach is just another LR forum blowhard."Riddle me this", LOL.
I disagree. wrote:
I disagree, I think it's great having people like VAcoach on here cos now he's flummoxed us with:
"Riddle me this, what are the central components of a running contract for a new runner in Kenya? With whom do these runners enter into contract with?"
he can now show how clever he is by answering, including a short résumé of his time in Kenya, links, sources, example copy of contracts, and some pics would be nice too.
But you're right about the other stuff, we all know that, FMD, a 12 year old in his moms basement could find all that out in minutes, the contract stuff, not so easy, but VAcoach will come through.
I disagree. wrote:
I disagree, I think it's great having people like VAcoach on here cos now he's flummoxed us with:
"Riddle me this, what are the central components of a running contract for a new runner in Kenya? With whom do these runners enter into contract with?"
he can now show how clever he is by answering, including a short résumé of his time in Kenya, links, sources, example copy of contracts, and some pics would be nice too.
But you're right about the other stuff, we all know that, FMD, a 12 year old in his moms basement could find all that out in minutes, the contract stuff, not so easy, but VAcoach will come through.
"VAcoach will come through"
You out there pal.
Renato, I'm sure that you know that the agents often deal with many athletes, that they often take more than 15%, and that illegal drugs are a small percentage of the prize money at major marathons and extremely cheap in Kenya and Ethiopia. Whether it is blood doping and/or epo and steroids, it's affordable with just one big score at a marathon where there is no testing. And it doesn't have to be sophisticated when the athletes are not blood tested at all or very rarely in country, so they can cycle and microdose in Kenya, Ethiopia, and Southern Africa, all of which have had little if any testing.
mindweak wrote:
when some kenyan goes rouge and tried to do it themselves
He started using cosmetics to add blush to his cheeks? I mean, that's kind of weird but it isn't illegal. Are you thinking he shouldn't have done it himself? I suppose it is usually better to get a professional makeup artist involved, but still.... not illegal.
spellingweak wrote:
mindweak wrote:
when some kenyan goes rouge and tried to do it themselves
He started using cosmetics to add blush to his cheeks? I mean, that's kind of weird but it isn't illegal. Are you thinking he shouldn't have done it himself? I suppose it is usually better to get a professional makeup artist involved, but still.... not illegal.
He's the same tool that bashes a world renowned coach, calls him names, then cries about how he's "getting bullied." Strange dude.
eswallace wrote:
For some reason, people on these boards always think times directly correlate to how much money you make. Sponsorships are all about promoting and growing the company, you are a walking/running advertisement. Brazier has been all over magazines, sports networks and even the WSJ. That is how you get to a $2 million evaluation.
Exactly. How much money and fame has someone Dean Karnazes made out of running? He would be destroyed by most people on these boards over any distance who classify themselves as hobby joggers in the grand scheme of things. Look also at all these slow runners pimping themselves out on social media to gain attention to themselves as they jog/walk across America or jog/walk so many 6 hour marathons in x number of days. It is a joke really but when you look at the commercial/corporate world it is also clear that someone's salary in their job is not at all strictly related to their actual ability or performance. Often those who make out that they are doing a "great job" are paid more than people who are much more competent and hard working.
Renato Canova wrote:
So, really somebody can think these athletes can spend a lot of money for having sophisticated doping ? How is it possible that stupid people in Letsrun can continue to compare these athletes with Lance Armstrong ?
This is not really the same sort of comparison. How much money did Lance Armstong's no-name domestiques make when he was in the US Postal team? They were all pressurized to dope as well, if not they were out of the team.
nice and now my comments get deleted....yet the brojos can accuse people left and right and its all good