Recovery for older runners

"How a lifetime of running changes you"

http://www.vox.com/2016/3/25/11290566/running-lifetime

bullarky switch to xfit wrote:

Don't read this. It is total BULL and misinformation to drive membership to a certain fitness regime.

I posted that link as a joke. "How a lifetime of running changes you" by a 27 year-old is an automatic DQ.

Sorry you didn't get it.

Truth is wrote:

Vocabulary wrote:

Yea, that's good---more crudeness and vulgarity. At 58 I would think you"d be a little more grown up.

Hey, chill.

And what's your 10K PR?

Bout the same as your IQ

Senior Software Engineer wrote:

I don't do the hard easy thing. I think it's wrong (especially for older people). You get less work done doing hard easy rather than spreading the effort out, and you are always risking injury on the overly hard days.

[big snip/]

Perhaps it's not the best training method and maybe you can get an extra boost by going to the track and doing an "amazing" workout, but I say those "amazing" workouts end up being a negative since you are just gambling with injury and or have to essentially take the next day or two off to "recover". So while you are eventually sidelined with some problem from a workout, I am still moving forward as always.

I pretty much agree. Very-hard/very-easy is optimal for peaking *IF* injury can be avoided. But *ALL* the masters runners I follow eventually get injured. I think more moderate training that avoids injury would be more effective in the long term. It's just a guess though.

KAV, you still believe that only 20g of protein can be absorbed in one shot? jeezz.... feel sorry for you dude.

My subjective impression is that your body, at a certain point, begins to shrink and dry up. It becomes more brittle. Aging gracefully as an athlete isn't about dealing more effectively with muscle soreness or learning how to accept gradually slowing times. Those things will happen, but they're not the problem, at least for me. The problem is connective tissue: tendons, ligaments, cartilage, joints. My muscles recover just as quickly now, at 58, as they did at 48. I can build up to 50 mile weeks and 15 mile long runs--IF the hamstrings, achilles, etc., don't get injured.

For me, the key has been to accept exactly where I am; to increase distance and speed in a very staged and progressive way; to let tempo runs, aerobic fartlek, and the very occasional fast burst at the end of a run serve as pretty much the full extent of my speed training.

The problems for me always come when, having built up my strength and endurance, I think that I'm ready to hammer out some 800s and mile repeats and then, beyond that, some 3K intervals and one-mile pace 220s, on the roads. Then something goes out of alignment and the damage is done.

I really don't know the answer. We're all pointing towards a range of answers. Treat the old car nice. Avoid the stupid s--t. ALWAYS stop with one fewer rather than one more interval. Less is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more. Because an injury can set you back months or even a year. So you're better off going a little easier rather than a little harder. And if you decide that you absolutely, positively have to go hard, hard, hard, make sure that you've tasted that speed in small, harmless doses before you go there.

I.e., strides.

Also, don't let green and foolish young'uns try to shame you into behaving. They just don't know what's up.

F--k the Grim Reaper.

I love your post. I get depressed reading all these former great runners over 50 say they don't feel like racing or competing anymore. They slow down and lose all desire to get out there. There's a massive drop of competitive runners at that age. It is just depressing reading about it all the time.

Especially if you are 40, running really well and know you are only a decade away from where they are. That's depressing for the younger runners hearing the spark is gone.

SO.. you are doing every runner a favour by being optimistic and still getting out there! Love to hear this and love to hear guys like Ed Whitlock still competing and loving the races (but not necessarily the training)!

Senior Software Engineer wrote:

Age 47.

I run for about an hour a day every day and ave about 7 min pace, though my ave pace is still dropping (been running for about 1.5 years after decades of not running).

I don't do the hard easy thing. I think it's wrong (especially for older people).

That's a great way to train if you accept you will race at 90% potential. If you want to get that last 10%, you have to do hard workouts or races. My experience is that the hard work isn't what causes injury or overtraining, it's the other days where there isn't enough recovery. Two years ago I average 60/week for the whole year and raced some. (Like you are training now) Last year I averaged 35/week and raced a lot and much faster. (15-20 seconds/mile) At least half the runs were an easy 2 or 3 miles. I not only went slower on the easy days, I didn't go as far. Even if you run easy, a 6 to 7 miler may not let you recover enough before you try to run hard again. The first 10 weeks of this year, I cut my pace back on most runs and averaged 80 miles a week. Right now I am running 40-45 but at a harder effort and taking a couple days really easy. Preventing injury isn't about the types of workouts or the miles, it's not knowing when you are pushing too hard for too long and either need to decrease the speed or the mileage. Keep in mind all mileage is relative. Some may be able to run easy 10 milers and recover for their next workout. Others may have to take the day clear off.

Some people respond differently to different training methods.

I think I can do what I am doing and get much closer to my potential than any other way. Also, I didn't say no speed work, but it would just be injected into the hour run if I chose to do some speed that day. So if I go hard for part of the run, the rest of the run is at a slower than normal pace. That way I can come back the next day and repeat the same work load. So I am varying what I do each day, but the amount of work load is about the same. I can do more work than the hard easy approach because the effort is spread out more evenly. I don't have any down days.

Also, since I keep getting in better shape as I progress, the same workload today is at a much faster pace than the same workload six months ago. My steady pace today would have been workouts 6 months ago. Except that I didn't have to risk it with the workouts to get to where I am.

Also, back in my college days, I got hurt on the workouts on several occasions, plus I alawys felt terrible the next day. Any boost from the workouts were always short lived. After many weeks of speed work twice a week with race on Saturdays if I survive it all injury free, then I am burned out, trashed, and useless.

I would rather take a more long term and steady approach.

old prejudices die hard wrote:

KAV, you still believe that only 20g of protein can be absorbed in one shot? jeezz.... feel sorry for you dude.

It is not what i believe... your recovery is better served by taking shots of 20g..... give it a shot maybe your times will improve a bit.....

KAV wrote:

old prejudices die hard wrote:

KAV, you still believe that only 20g of protein can be absorbed in one shot? jeezz.... feel sorry for you dude.

It is not what i believe... your recovery is better served by taking shots of 20g..... give it a shot maybe your times will improve a bit.....

I could do this instead of taking it all at once, but here's my thoughts.

-I've basically fasted for 12 hours (dinner the previous night).

-I've just burned 500+ calories.

-Research says I should take in some calories within 20 minutes of the workout.

And on a subjective note, I'm dehydrated after a workout, but I have to force myself to drink. I've noticed I don't drink enough. Gatorade tastes a lot better with vanilla protein powder than it does by itself so I tend to drink more of it. I'm also prone to blood sugar crashes within an hour of a workout and the protein helps prevent a spike that the Gatorade by itself would cause.

Short version: I feel better a few hours after a run if I drink Gatorade+protein compared to water or Gatorade.

KudzuRunner wrote:

The problem is connective tissue: tendons, ligaments, cartilage, joints.

Lots of insight here. It's a major limiting factor for me as well.

We have many proven training methods for muscles and endurance, but older runners really don't follow proven training methods to strengthen tendons and ligaments.

My opinion, based on my own experience, is that older runners need weight bearing resistance exercises and range of motion extending exercises to maintain strong ligaments.

Instead of that rotten stuff you're taking shots of, try eating just regular FOOD, like fruit and vegetables that have been around for longer than humans, and which by the way is the primary diet of the closest wild primates to humans.

fisky wrote:

KudzuRunner wrote:

The problem is connective tissue: tendons, ligaments, cartilage, joints.

Lots of insight here. It's a major limiting factor for me as well.

We have many proven training methods for muscles and endurance, but older runners really don't follow proven training methods to strengthen tendons and ligaments.

My opinion, based on my own experience, is that older runners need weight bearing resistance exercises and range of motion extending exercises to maintain strong ligaments.

Complete BS. Your tendons are the strongest part of you. You can use your Achilles tendon to lift a small car. The reason tendons degrade is because of your tight muscles. Tendons can't take being in a continuously stretched state. And the older you get the tighter your muscles get from training. Keep your muscles supple and you will have virtually no problems with tendons, tendon attachments, ligaments, cartilage or joints. That means lots of massage, stretching, and dynamic exercises.

Might be some ideas here:

How to Set Five World Records at Age 50

http://www.runnersworld.com/masters/how-to-set-five-world-records-at-age-50