Why does everyone forget about Daniel Komen?

Ha haha wrote:

well,. wrote:

Only teenagers write "lol".

Why?

Because the rest of us has grown up.

wtfunny wrote:

For a good look at Komen's kick, there's a 5000m race on youtube of him as a younger athletes, getting smokes by four or five guys or more over the last 100m. He just didn't have those kinds of wheels.

But I think he'd have dropped Mo long before the last lap of a 5000m.

You can't say someone has no kick because you looked at ONE race from their younger days. Was he a 3:29 runner in those younger days? Also, why dont you use the same logic for Farah? There are LOTS of videos of him getting blown away on the last laps in his younger days.

True, you can't. That's just one example.

Can you show me a single example where he displayed any kind of kick equivalent to Farah's?

Really?

58.6 seconds per lap

next questions

you clearly never saw Komen run or have any idea about his races

Komen had a big kick but shown only in specific races

- he destroyed niyonbongo in a 1500 by 1s in outkicking the once considered heir to morceli who still won a 5k gold !

he won in 3'29.46

- hugely more impressive was berlin mile

in a criminally large field which woud be illegal nowdays, he got tripped/baulked twice at the start !!!, costing him time !!!

he got so p!ssed-off with this, he took a straight right into lane 3 !!! costing more time from running wrong direction !!!

then he launched a suicidal sprint to get towards the lead !!!

this was a kick you save at end of race, not the start !!!

he also ran huge amount wide in the outer lanes in that 1st bend

he then basically drafted hicham to bell, receiving less than ideal drafting himself

he reached bell in 2'50.65 corrected & had to run wide on last bend

last lap of 55.7 with wide running

if he'd got ideal race that day, perfect drafting /even-pace / no extra on bends / etc, he wouda been looking at

3'43+

if not for hicham drafting off him in that race & ideal race, Komen was in shape that day to break morceli's 3'44.39WR

mo woudn't have outkicked niyonbongo in a slow 5k, so Komen who oukicked him over 1500 woud have great chance of outkicking mo

not mile PB & over a mile Komen was in 3'43+ shape

He wasn't going to run 3:43 that day but he could have run quicker if he didn't have such terrible tactics. Though Guerrouj would've had to run faster to win that day.

I remember him every time I notice it is 7.20am or pm. Komen o clock.

who?

I always assumed he was a girl. Thanks for the education. Did his mom get breast cancer or something?

eh ?

i suggest you learn to analyse vids logically & not governed by your preconceptions about any runner

what Komen couda run had absolutely nothing to do with what hicham or morceli were capable of

he was an independent unit

are you off belief 3'43.13 will be world record ad infinitum ???

for Komen's 3'46.38

- he stumbled/tripped/baulked twice at start costing each time 0.1+ for 0.2++

- he got so p!ssed off he took straight right into 3rd lane !!!, costing from loss of momentum & running 90 degree in wrong direction at least ~ 0.5

- he made suidal sprint on 1st backstretch to catch up !!!

he used up his finishing kick by 200m !!!

he ran remaining 1400+ of race on wasted legs !!!

that cost easily 1s

- in total he ran a ridiculous ~ 6.5m wide on bends !!!, that cost ~ 0.9

so, without even considering uneven pace thruout whole race & significant lack of drafting for parts of the race, Komen was owed :

0.2++

0.5

1.0

0.9

=

2.6++s

->

3'46.38 - 2.6

=

< < 3'43.78

the lack of drafting & uneven pace just solidifies this estimate & more likely Komen was around 3'43-flat shape

quite frankly, Komen was by far the best 1500/miler in '97 & if roles were juxtaposed & hicham had run Komen's exact same race, he wouda lost by a huge margin, probably near 2s

You f****ing inspire me calculo

Harambe wrote:

You f****ing inspire me calculo

We need a delete function to this forum. His negativity is unparalleled.

So he ran into lane 6 did he? Where?

Which is still slower than El Guerrouj and Ngeny.

Basically we are arguing that one runner doped up on epo could beat another runner doped up on epo, both of which ran around 345, which is spectacularly fast.

I clearly haven't forgotten about Daniel Komen. It's gonna take some serious sauce to break his 3k WR.

Easily my favorite runner of all time, and I don't care how much EPO he was on. They all were. At least it was entertaining back then.

no

watch vid properly

2 guys all in black shoot past around the pack, 2nd one is Komen

yes

worse move i have ever seen in a fast race

destructive build up lactate by 200 in !!!

is this a joke ???

he starts in lane 2, dips fractionally into lane 1 then turn straight right into lane 3 to start murderous sprint to get to pole

i gave him an ungenerous 5.75m component for that + 0.75m extra wide on last bend for 6.5m

is this a joke ???

i offered initial ungenerous 6.5m total

this is ungenerous because i didn't consider geometry of trajectory

he started in mid lane 2, dipped just into 1 & then straight right into lane 3 to launch his sprint

this is a separate consideration from extra run on bends which is a focus of running in forward direction compared to 0.3m from kerb

this is trajectory issue of running in wrong direction, from 2 to 1 to 3 in virtual immediate sideways trajectory

this is a total of ~ 0.7m going from 2 to 1 then ~ 1.8m going from 1 to 3 for total of 2.5m

this doesn't include the ~0.5s lost from loss of momentum/time as he is running sideways, the field is running forwards on the track

his more accurate extra distance from running wide on bends for whole race + running in wrong direction for part of 1st bend is

6.5 + 2.5 = 9.0m

no

better, more accurate figure is with 9.0m extra for 1.25s

is this a joke ???

this has nothing to do with extra run on bends

it has to do with speed

it is separate

whilst rest of field was operating at ~ 14s/100m on that backstretch, Komen made up close to 15m from near last to pole in that time, meaning for upto 100m of that stretch he was moving at ~ 12-low/mid speed !!!

i am not saying he ran all of that 100m at 12-low/mid sped but he ran significant part of it at that speed

is this a joke ???

where do you see hicham jostled at start in this race ???

no

you don't

you analyse each race separately

no

it isn't

0.5s is for loss of time as he runs sideways whilst field runs forward

the 0.9s, which is incorrect & shoud be ~ 1.25s, is for total amount run wide on bends + trajectory of running sideways

you sum all extraneous distance, run wide on bends relative to 0.3m from kerb + extra distance run in wrong direction

whilst you are running extra distance in wrong direction sideways you are double whammied by not only running extra distance but the field during that time is running away from you in the correct forward direction

the exaggerated analogy is if you have a fall

whilst you are getting up & having to start your momentum again, the field has run some seconds away from you

it isn't

running extra distance on bends + extra distance running wrong direction is separate from time lost whilst you are messing about doing this, field is running away from you, costing you separate time

yes

& ungenerous

he likely operating for significant part of that stretch at ~ 12-low/mid per 100m speed whilst field operating at ~ 14s/100m

no tired by 200m

eh ?

i'm not interested in semantics

i'm interested in analysis

is this a joke ???

an elite athlete has 1 kick in him & he is supposed to use that at the end of race

he put in his finishing kick at the start !!!

do you expect him to find another kick at the finish ???

is this a joke ???

Komen made up 10 - 15m on the pack which were operating at ~ 14.0s/100m speed

i'll even offer you estimate for his speed :

if he made up 10m in that time, the pack has run 90m at 14s speed whilst Komen woud be going at :

[ ( 100 - 10 ) / 100 ] * 14.0 = 12.6s

if he made up 15m in that time, the pack has run 85m at 14s speed whilst Komen woud be going at :

[ ( 100 - 15 ) / 100 ] * 14.0 = 11.9s

a reasonable estimate is that he covered a serious part of that stretch in 12-low/mid speed

is this a joke ???

coe finished in a execrable 3'31.95 which is 3'48.9 converted

it is quantum leap slower than 3'46.38

far more impressive was Maree in his 3'29.77 when after having run ~ 1.0m extra on 1st bend reached finish line in 39.3s !!!

for route-1, he ran 301m in 39.3s or 39.1+ which is 13.05s speed for 300m or 52.2 !!! pace for 400

all this with a 3'32.9 in his legs from 44 hours before & a 13'21 just 2/7 before that !!!

is this a total joke ???

if you think Komen was worth only 0.42 quicker that day in a perfect race, you have absolutely no idea whatsoever of race analysis !!!

try more like

3'43.43

& that still doesn't even include uneven pace of laps or significant lack of drafting in the race

he was in ~ 3'43-flat that day

is this a joke ???

do you have no idea of "limpet-tight" drafting ???

for significant parts of race he was long way behind pacer, offering little drafting & he was wide of pacer nearly 500 out !!!

is this a joke ???

what universe are you living in ???

in these races, limpet -ight drafting is expected

- to bell in a 800

- to bell in a 1500/mile

- to 2k in a 3k

- to 3k in a 5k

- to 5k in a 10k

is this a joke ???

accounting for wrong 400/800/1200 marker on clock when in fact the 9.344m included in initial 400m clocking

for leader :

55.97 for initial 409.344m is 54.69 !!! for 400

next 400 is genuine 56.56 then followed by 58.11

starting off for leader with 54-mid then 56-mid then 58-low is rubbish pacing

then for Komen a final 55.7

these are far from ideal splits

is this a joke ???

when was lane 6 mentioned ???

yes

but in '97, Komen had in him in berlin

~ 3'43-flat

all this on crumbled legs with a 12'39 crushing his legs from 4/7 before !!!

is this a joke ???

how come the guy coudn't even get into Kenyan 5k team in '96 when soon after he ran 7'20 ???

how coudn't epo get him top-3 in squad ???

what is hugely remarkable is that Komen ran this mile on totally crumbled legs !!!

he had run epic 12'39WR just 4/7 before !!!

i doubt there is anyone here who woud claim that a 12'39 in your legs just 4/7 before attempting a mile WR means you are 100% fresh for that mile ???!!!

mo said 1/52 wasn't enough time to recover for the 5k in london, so how on earth woud 4/7 rest from a 12'39 before a mile be enough rest for it ???

here is clip

this race is 4/7 before berlin mile

someone dare claim that he coud have been anywhere close to 100% recovered for that mile !!!???

calculo wrote:

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:⤴You are confusing him with the pacer, who ran wide

he started in mid lane 2, dipped just into 1 & then straight right into lane 3 to launch his sprint

this is a separate consideration from extra run on bends which is a focus of running in forward direction compared to 0.3m from kerb

this is trajectory issue of running in wrong direction, from 2 to 1 to 3 in virtual immediate sideways trajectory

this is a total of ~ 0.7m going from 2 to 1 then ~ 1.8m going from 1 to 3 for total of 2.5m

⤴He ran from almost the outside of lane 1 to the middle of lane 3, which is barely 2.0m, on closer inspection there is no evidence Komen made it into lane 1 after the gun went off and we cannot see any evidence that he went any wider than the middle of lane lane 3, the camera just doesn't show it. Then from the 300m/1500m start line to just before the 200m/5000m start line he makes his way to his spot behind the pacers. Simple trigonometry says that distance is barely any further, just like running from lane 3 to lane 1 in an 800m race after 100m (if he was even in lane 3 at that stage, more like lane 2). ↔so really 3:46.0

Did he run poorly? Yes. Could he run more efficiently? Yes. But his time would have been 3:45-something but no faster.

You've got a rosy retrospection of Komen's 1500m abilities that doesn't match with the facts. He was still fast but not as much over that distance compared with 3k & 5k. His best distances.

no

wrong estimate

it is ~ 2.5m extra running in WRONG direction within a coupla seconds

do you have no understanding of geometry ???

this is 2.5m extra distance IN ADDITION to the extra distance run whilst in lane 2 & 3 compared to pole 30cm from bend

he ran

do you not understand geometry ??

Komen ran ~ 6.5m extra because of 30cm from kerb & additional 2.5m from running in wrong direction for total of 9.0m !!!

the position where Komen lined up required him to reach the 30cm point wide of kerb by 5 - 10m past finsh line

the exact calculation for anyone other than 30cm from kerb at gun to reach the 30cm from-kerb point starting along the mile start line requires solving of 5 simultaneous trigonometric equations with obviously 5 variables to solve for !!!

i have posted the equations here few times but no takers

it requires $100s+++ software in maple or mathematica to crunch it numerically

for track-surveyors, it requires this access to software or theodolite type instruments to hand meticulously measure the mile start line

this is way above your pay grade !

i will buy a steak dinner to any guy/gal who can algebraically solve from the 5 trigonometrical equations to determine the x & y coordinates of the mile start line on lane 3 or 4 or 5 lines

this topic is hugely above your pay grade !!!

is this a joke ???

"makes his way to his spot behind the pacers" ???

he charges like a maniac !!!

he ran ~ 12-low/12-mid for that 100m !!!

is this a joke ???

not only is little of this trigonometry, most is geometry & the question is pathway or trajectory, for which the full mathematical treatment for best accuracy is differential calculus

puhleeze !

get your terminology correct

as for your cringeworthy estimate, do you not comprehend from geometry that every mm Komen wasn't 30cm from kerb by 5 - 10m on 1st bend cost HUGE extra distance ???

try

3'43-flat

& that had 12'39 in his legs from just 4/7 before !!!

impress me :

Komen ran 12'39 just 4/7 before 3'46.3

how much time do you estimate that 12'39 took out of his legs for that 3'46.3 ???

is this a joke ???

not only have you shown virtually 0 grasp of math, you offer nothing for a 12'39 from 4/7 before ???!!!

is this a joke ???

the "facts" indicate a "perfect" run of 0 extra distance/limpet drafting to bell/even pace of

~ 3'43.0

all this with a 12'39 smashing his legs from 4/7 before !!!

no

that is not what the analysis shows

learn to analyse

learn to compare just what a 3'43.0 is worth on iaaf tables for 3k/5k & that's offering nothing for a 12'39 smashing his legs

no

flat out from gun, they were far from his best distance

get a clue

he was 21y when he ran this mile

humans tend to have best distance runs in mid-20s, 21y hasn't engendered enough top quality stamina reservoir to excel at 3k/5k, but offers better excellence at 1500 & for quick 400 guys, better 800 absolute potential

Komen in his breakthru 12'56WJR in '95 losing sprint to moses in 2nd fastest 5k ever, got shafted into wrong event for a 19y ole, of 5k/3k events

bad coach

Kenya had no serious 1500 runners in '95 & every talent got shoved to 5k, mostly because they believed morceli was unbeatable

Komen at barely 19y in his 12'56WJR shape couda run very close to 3'30 that day if run 1500 instead, because he did have good 400 speed & shouda stuck to 1500 until at least '98

pushed into wrong event at too young, probably contributed to early burn-out, but obviously he was only going to beat morceli/hicham with drive from long way out, not last 400