Nike does what makes sense financially.
Bible belt morality is a niche point of view...
Nike does what makes sense financially.
Bible belt morality is a niche point of view...
Asakaka wrote:
Not to mention. Had a company said they wanted to fire a person for being pro gay marriage you'd be crying like sobbing child.
You'd be wrong. As a business they can hire people to represent their brand. If Hobby Lobby or Chick-Fil-A hired a celebrity and they got fired for being pro gay marriage it would totally be justified. Personal beliefs don't give you free license to be a dumb ass in your professional life.
gay rights is a hot topic right now, religion isn't, simple as that. Nike is a business, you can't blame em for making decisions based on what earns em more money
late 905 wrote:
If anything this makes me want to buy more Nike products.
This^^^
Asakaka wrote:
But they have a right to believe it, and Nike does NOT have the right to fire people over a religious view unless you hate the civil rights act.
I sincerely believe that all Christians are worse than swine who deserve to be stoned in the street. I make my beliefs and hatred for all things Jesus quite clear on social media (#onemorenail!). I was fired yesterday after telling a reporter that, contrary to what they tell everyone, Catholics are actually consuming Christ's bloody urine and leprosy-infected body every week. (The question was initially about our quarterly revenues.) Look it up; there is no way that dude was healthy after touching all those sick people.
I am taking my evil Christian employer to court and I just wanted to let you know how much appreciate your words of support on this matter.
Asakaka wrote:
You're not aware that the Christians, Muslim and Orthodox Jewish religions, among others, teach that same sex marriage isn't marriage?
This is a very good point, and one that I think gets lost a lot. I can agree there is a very legitimate argument that if civil marriage is a non-religious event there may not be a legitimate argument to not recognize gay marriage as being justified and recognized in the civil marriage arena.
However, the idea that anyone that doesn't believe in gay marriage is a bigot is frequently made by people that don't truly understand the basis and understanding of marriage by some religious institutions. While you can absolutely, 100% disagree with their view, if you don't approach the reasoning for marriage teaching with a full understanding of a particular religious institutions views on sexuality and marriage, you end up judging their teaching based on an incorrect set of inputs.
Nike are, presumably, being boycotted for this - you just don't hear about it because it's not a very big boycott.
Let's make a deal.
You, Manny and anyone else who feels that way inclined get to believe marriage can only be between a man and a woman.
I get to believe all religions are nuts, should be ignored out of hand and the world would be a better place if we let people do whatever the hell they wanted provided it didn't impinge on the right of others.
We all get to choose what sportswear we buy.
Nike get to hire and fire whoever they want.
The chips fall where they may.
Does anyone have a problem with this? Do you?
We Christians are everywhere!!!!
it must be tough to hold on to such antiquated prejudices when you're reminded every day that the rest of the world has moved on.
go spew your hate speech somewhere else
i ate cake wrote:
gay rights is a hot topic right now, religion isn't, simple as that. Nike is a business, you can't blame em for making decisions based on what earns em more money
Like it or not, Nike has stood in support of LGBT issues for a long time. They had an ad with a HIV-positive runner before general society become more accepting.
I've yet to see a heterosexual platypus.
Funny, I've been boycotting Nike for ages, for various reasons (child labour, supporting dopers, etc. etc.). Basically I loath their way of doing business, but this was the first time since long ago that they did something I approve of.First of all: saying something stupid because your religion brainwashed you in to believing it doesn't make it any less stupid.Furthermore, companies don't like people representing them saying things they don't agree with or that upset people, so they fire them, simple as that.Could they have known in advance what his opinion on this matter is? Probably, but that's a moot point. To stay with your own comparison, could the employer have known what the vegan thought about eating meat? Yes. Do they have the right to fire him when he publicly states eating meat is wrong? Ofcourse. They should know his stance on it, but he should know to keep it to himself when he is representing his employer.Religious people are often so self-righteous, thinking anything they do or say is okay 'because it's their religion'. Well, you can ofcourse say or do pretty much what you want, just don't be surprised or offended when sane people call you out on it.
Asakaka wrote:
They dumped Manny PacquiaO simply because he publicly stated what his religion says about marriage. That he doesn't believe same sex-marriage is actually matrimony. Why is this a problem? Why would Nike drop his endorsement arrangement? Are these people in business not aware their clients are religious? And are they unaware what religions teach on same sex marriage?
Why is this a controversy?
Do you people who love to see others get black balled like Manny realize that you are friends, and interact with dozens of Christians every day, Hundreds if not thousands a month? Christians have civil rights too. Speaking about the doctrine of one's faith is now black balled in this society and it needs to stop.
The person you just sat next to on the bus, the cashier clerk at the store, the fireman who protects your house, the bank teller, the street sweeper, your son's principal, the guy who does your taxes, etc etc, may all be Christians. They have beliefs on marriage. You live among them. Are they enemies? When is this witch hunt going to stop? You live with Christians every day. We all do.
Nike should be boycotted for this. I doubt it will happen. but it's a complete injustice what they did.
A company fired someone for making public statements that were guaranteed to offend many potential customers? Makes sense to me.
Obviosuly, I have the freedom of speech and religion. However, if I tweeted "Christians are such idiots!" or something similar I would expect my boss to fire me. That would offend many of our clients and would reflect poorly on "the brand".
Reminder to self: Buy more Nike shoes.
Flagpole wrote:
1) He called gays, "worse than animals". Seriously?
OP - it's not what he said, it's how he said it. Instead of stating his beliefs in a respectful way, he calls homosexuals "worse than animals" and implied that they deserve to die. Those statements go far beyond his beliefs about gay marriage and convey a broad hatred of all homosexuals, not simply a disagreement with their way of life.
I refuse to buy nike because
1) The sweatshop issue
2) Their official support for redefining marriage
http://www.oregonlive.com/playbooks-profits/index.ssf/2013/11/nike_announces_support_for_ore.html
3) Their financial support for abortion
I agree that nike can fire whoever they want for whatever reason as long as they aren't contractually obligated to not do so. But then again I try to be intellectually honest. What I disagree with are the people on here who say it was ok to fire this guy because nike can do whatever it wants as a company but would no doubt try to destroy a company which refused to make a cake celebrating something which the owners oppose.
4) I also don't buy nike because their clown shoes are super ugly and as I consumer I choose not to wear them.
Asakaka wrote:
Flagpole wrote:Asakaka,
You are painting all Christians with the same brush, brother. Not all Christians are against same-sex marriage. And if you believe then that they can't be Christians, continue reading to further YOUR education...
Some points for you to consider before you side with Pacquiao:
1) He called gays, "worse than animals". Seriously?
2) He later posted a verse from the Bible that says this, "Leviticus 20:13 - "If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."
3) So, if you believe that point #1 is just his opinion and he has a right to that opinion, you would be CORRECT, but that doesn't mean a large company needs to hook it's wagon to that homophobic crap.
4) If you believe that the Bible verse is golden, then you believe and follow all the other things said in the Bible too, like...you are never to approach a women when she is "unclean", if a child curses his parents, he is to be put to death, if you work on the Sabbath, you are to be put to death, if you eat anything in the ocean without scales and fins you have sinned, you are not to wear clothing made of two kinds of material, you should not round the corners of your head, if men are fighting with each other and the wife of one of them intercedes by grabbing the other man's testicles, you are to cut off her hand.
5) And finally, what the F**K is up with "Christians" getting all bent out of shape over homosexuality? It's not one of the Ten Commandments, and the others are broken all the freakin' time and no one seems give a crap.
Evangelical Christians LOVE to rip on other Christians by saying they just pick and choose what they want to believe from the Bible when they do the same freakin' exact thing. IF you are a Christian and you support Manny Pacquiao, you are a hypocrite. I means seriously, WTF. Jesus was all about Grace, and there is no grace in his comments.
[drop the mic]
This is a complete waste of time this whole diatribe. When you hire religious people they have viewpoints. You know what they could be. what they likely are. Manny obviously does subscribe to this viewpoint and Nike shouldn't have fired him. It's a disgrace. He stated a known religious tenet. You act like you've never heard of it before. You also assume every Christian violates their own beliefs. It's probably more respectful to assume they don't. Either way you're making arguments about what YOU prefer people believe because you find it unappealing they way they believe. But they have a right to believe it, and Nike does NOT have the right to fire people over a religious view unless you hate the civil rights act.
1) Just because a company knows a person they hired is religious doesn't mean they know that person would call gay people "worse than animals". It's not like he just stated an opinion that it's a sin. I know a LOT of religious people (Christians even) who support gay people.
2) I am not assuming Christians violate their beliefs. I am SAYING that they DO NOT follow to the T what the Bible says (so they pick and choose their beliefs to suit them), so how can they be so judgmental of others who also don't? There are children every day in this country who curse their Christian parents. How many news stories do you hear about a parent killing a child because of that? How many Christians work on the Sabbath? Or eat shellfish? Or wear clothing made of more than one kind of material? Or approach a women when she is unclean? Or trim their beards and hair? I mean, seriously.
The Bible has stories of "don't do this" primarily to help keep people alive. Eating shellfish after a redtide can kill you, so it was said not to. Homosexual relations don't bear children during a time when mortality was high.
You are mistaken about Nike being able to fire someone for hateful speech. They aren't firing him because he is a Christian. They fired him because #1 he is a has been at this point or very close to it, and #2, he gave them an easy out because he said a horrible thing about a group of people. All law-abiding people deserve respect, and he has a RIGHT to his opinion, but he does NOT have a right to a job for spewing that particular hateful opinion.
And again, why the focus on gay people? Why not hate thieves or murderers or prostitutes? Why not go after people who divorce? It has nothing to do with your religion. If you are honest with yourself, you are disgusted by the behavior (or are hiding your own gay feelings, but chances are it's the former), and you turn to the Bible to justify your disgust. No way you follow all the rules in the Bible. No one on the planet does, or they would be thrown in jail.
You need to change your viewpoint, because it is wrong. This is not an opinion...Christianity includes grace and forgiveness at its core, and vengeance is God's, not yours. No one is saying you need to join a gay pride parade, but they hate you have for people who didn't choose to be gay is unwarranted and not of the teachings of Jesus. The New Testament was supposed to weed out all that antiquated stuff in the Old Testament.
Finally, why the hell would you side with an uneducated buffoon like Pacquiao anyway? That is the core audience for that kind of crap. Better yourself.
Flagpole wrote:
Asakaka wrote:This is a complete waste of time this whole diatribe. When you hire religious people they have viewpoints. You know what they could be. what they likely are. Manny obviously does subscribe to this viewpoint and Nike shouldn't have fired him. It's a disgrace. He stated a known religious tenet. You act like you've never heard of it before. You also assume every Christian violates their own beliefs. It's probably more respectful to assume they don't. Either way you're making arguments about what YOU prefer people believe because you find it unappealing they way they believe. But they have a right to believe it, and Nike does NOT have the right to fire people over a religious view unless you hate the civil rights act.
1) Just because a company knows a person they hired is religious doesn't mean they know that person would call gay people "worse than animals". It's not like he just stated an opinion that it's a sin. I know a LOT of religious people (Christians even) who support gay people.
2) I am not assuming Christians violate their beliefs. I am SAYING that they DO NOT follow to the T what the Bible says (so they pick and choose their beliefs to suit them), so how can they be so judgmental of others who also don't? There are children every day in this country who curse their Christian parents. How many news stories do you hear about a parent killing a child because of that? How many Christians work on the Sabbath? Or eat shellfish? Or wear clothing made of more than one kind of material? Or approach a women when she is unclean? Or trim their beards and hair? I mean, seriously.
The Bible has stories of "don't do this" primarily to help keep people alive. Eating shellfish after a redtide can kill you, so it was said not to. Homosexual relations don't bear children during a time when mortality was high.
You are mistaken about Nike being able to fire someone for hateful speech. They aren't firing him because he is a Christian. They fired him because #1 he is a has been at this point or very close to it, and #2, he gave them an easy out because he said a horrible thing about a group of people. All law-abiding people deserve respect, and he has a RIGHT to his opinion, but he does NOT have a right to a job for spewing that particular hateful opinion.
And again, why the focus on gay people? Why not hate thieves or murderers or prostitutes? Why not go after people who divorce? It has nothing to do with your religion. If you are honest with yourself, you are disgusted by the behavior (or are hiding your own gay feelings, but chances are it's the former), and you turn to the Bible to justify your disgust. No way you follow all the rules in the Bible. No one on the planet does, or they would be thrown in jail.
You need to change your viewpoint, because it is wrong. This is not an opinion...Christianity includes grace and forgiveness at its core, and vengeance is God's, not yours. No one is saying you need to join a gay pride parade, but they hate you have for people who didn't choose to be gay is unwarranted and not of the teachings of Jesus. The New Testament was supposed to weed out all that antiquated stuff in the Old Testament.
Finally, why the hell would you side with an uneducated buffoon like Pacquiao anyway? That is the core audience for that kind of crap. Better yourself.
You like irrelevant angles to argue. You want to delve into the ins and outs of how "dedicated a Christian is" or "Does the religion suit YOU" OR "Does religion appeal to your political correctness" or "Here's why the Quran, or the Bible means this or that, and doesn't mean this or that"
Its irrelevant. Many organized religions and individuals have interpreted the Bible, or Quran to mean what they say it means. These views are well known. Many of them have been established as doctrines of several major religions. You're aware of it. You're pretending you're not.
When you hire a religious person and then act floored and offended about what their views on homosexuality are, you're being fake. It's fake outrage.
Basicallyy Nike feels they can hire Christians for their own financial benefit, so long as a Christian shuts up.
The Civil Rights act says you cant punish an employee for their religious view.
You hate the Civil Rights act. Noted.
Another Christian wrote:
What I disagree with are the people on here who say it was ok to fire this guy because nike can do whatever it wants as a company but would no doubt try to destroy a company which refused to make a cake celebrating something which the owners oppose.
That's when you get the insincere argument, for convenience sake, that "business are not people" and have "no first amendment rights"
To the progressive left, pc mob, a business ONLY has personhood to make statements when it suits an agenda that's pc. If they take a position on something else "they aren't a person, they have no right to speak/make a position known"
Notice not one extremist has yet to argue that "nike is not a person"
In fact they've been assigned all sorts of benefit of the doubt here that they have personhood.
Let them take a pro-religious stand and the same people will scream they are "imposing their views on everyone" and "behaving like they own personhood as a business"
AI wrote:
Flagpole wrote:1) He called gays, "worse than animals". Seriously?
OP - it's not what he said, it's how he said it. Instead of stating his beliefs in a respectful way, he calls homosexuals "worse than animals" and implied that they deserve to die. Those statements go far beyond his beliefs about gay marriage and convey a broad hatred of all homosexuals, not simply a disagreement with their way of life.
Those views are well known that religions feel Homosexuals are commiting sins. Doesnt matter whether me or you believe that. They do. Tyson Fury the heavyweight got the same flack, and people called for him to be banned from boxing (belt taken). Fortunately it didnt happen.
But the pretending will still go on , ie "NOT ALL people follow Scripture to a T"... Yet many do believe in it. This is NOT a surprise. It's also NORMAL.