Who had the WORLDS BEST race tactics?

what about kelly holmes?

the athens olympics showed her running brilliant "coming through" tactics

Paula Radcliffe

You make some very good points: fast finishing is a tactic, but as you infer, it's not the only tactic.

I still rate Geb's racing brain, although I concede he's needed help on a number of occasions - that said, team tactics are, sadly, part of modern athletics.

Rejecting Geb, while citing El G is also curious, because El G's disgraceful use of a pure sacrifical lamb in championship races still tarnishes him.

Coe is an interesting choice because he was so often thought of having no tactical brain whatsoever when he lost the 800m in Moscow, but transformed into a great tactician with the 1500 metre win. I think the truth is somehere between the poles.

Martin

Some of my All-Time favorites tacticians:

1.) Said Aouita

2.) Seb Coe

3.) Haile Gebrsellasie

4.) Steve Cram

5.) Ingrid Kristansain/Joan Sameulson

Matt Withrow- 2003 FL dropping the hammer. How can Viren compete with that?

Cacho 1992 , Ovett 1980 800.

wannabekila wrote:

Marathon: Tactics not so important here. More about good energy conservation etc.

I totally disagree. My opinion is that tactics become more important as the length of the race increases.

Refresh my memory: when did Said Aouita ever win a close, tactical race - either fast or slow - with a competitive field?

Lost - '83 Worlds 1500m in sprint

Lost - '85 Nice 1500m to Cram in sprint to WR finish

Lost - '88 Seoul 800m in sprint

His '84 Gold was one by ducking Coe/Cram/Ovett in a slow 5,000.

Not quite sure he qualifies as a tactician.

Martin

Moscow wrote:

I'm being purely curious; what does it mean to dictate a race?

Dictating a race means that everyone else is just responding to your tactics rather than running their own race. It's largely a function of reputation. If everyone expects a certain athlete to take it out fast and they don't, often the others end up running at a slower pace than they would like so that athlete ends up 'dictating' what happens in the race as much as if they had started at world record pace.

Of course Viren, and also Murray halberg and Vladimir Kuts. Kuts was a strength-type 10,000 specialist who beat Zatopek in the 1954 5k European Final and then repeated in '56 in Melbourne with vicious mid-race surges that demolished the field. In Rome, Halberg sprinted with 1200 to go in the 5k and hung on.

Lasse Viren is one of the all time greats. The question was about race tactics. Think about what Deena Kastor did in Athens. Deena is my pick for best race tactics.

The thing about Geb is that throughout most of the 90s he was so clearly head and shoulders above the field that it didn't matter how the race went or what he wanted to do: he was going to win it.

During the 1999 World Championship 10000m, Brendan Foster was suggesting the the only runner in the field with any thought of taking first place aside from Geb was Tergat. And having said that, Foster postulated, "How do you beat him? You can't run away from him: he's the world record holder. You can't outsprint him: he's the fastest sprinter. You can't intimidate him: he won't be intimidated."

So it becomes a little hard to judge his tactics as they really didn't matter.

1995 WC 10km: he waits until 200m to go and launches a phenomenal 25s last 200m.

1996 Oly 10km: Sits on Tergat and he injects blistering laps during the final 2km, until he blows by him with 400m to go.

1997 WC 10km: Takes of at 9450m and runs the last 500m in 67 seconds.

The 1997 WC win was utterly brilliant. The surprise attack with well over a lap to go left the leading pack scratching their heads. This was Geb's genius. He was so fit and so tuned into a race, rarely did it get away from him.

(1) I'll go with Viren, who could win the only race he cared about regardless of how it developed, because he would always take control when it was time.

(2) If you like Kastor, you've gotta respect Pete Pfitzinger, too. He pulled off Kastor's race plan several times.

(3) I'm sick and tired of the "Pre has guts" junk. How insulting for him to suggest that, despite his off-the charts VO2, he didn't have the talent of other world-class athletes and that they, in turn, didn't have his guts. We've got teenagers who have only seen depictions of him in movies (which often distort the facts) who idolize him, all because he SAYS he didn't have any talent and did it all on guts.

Martin - x

There is no right or wrong answer, those are my choices. You pick 3 races out of nearly a hundred Aoutia ran-LOL!

-The 84 Olympics 5000m race was slow you say-how about sub 13:10 back then was pretty damn fast-his was about 9 seconds faster than Hicham's 5000m win 20 years later.

-The 88 Olympics he was injuried and still got a bronze medal. Now name me one other person in MODERN ATHLETICS who holds a medal in the 800m and 5000m from the OLYMPICS. Aouita, Cram, and Coe all ducked each other at times as has some athletes in the recent past. Aouita dictated many of his races while most were fast and a some slow races he still won many of them.

WHO CARES if you (Martin-x) thinks my 1 out of my 5 picks are suitable there my choices.

VIPAM

Vipam

I recommend splitting your "definsive" pills in half - -I wasn't attacking you, just facilitating conversation. You start literally hundreds of posts on this board -- I think it's about time you discovered that not everyone agrees with you.

Having it both ways - starting scores of discussions on every topic under the sun - and then getting upset when challenged is a bit immature.

That said ...

Winning a fast race isn't the demonstration of superior "tactics" -- if Aouita ran the hundreds of races you suggst, perhaps you could list a couple of his major tactical wins? There are very few.

Coe, Cram and Ovett ducked each other - I don't disagree - but none of them EVER shied away from a major championship race. Cram was injured and '88. Ovett ran himself into the hospital in '84 in both the 800 and the 1500. Coe missed all of his winter training in '83 and most of '84 but stilled toed the line like a man in both races.

Aoutia DUCKED everyone in '84 and again in '88 -- live with it.

As Jim Royale would say ... tactician my arse!

Martin

Kip Keino- 68 Olympics through half at 1:55 in 1500 at Mexico City Altitude, stole gold from Ryun....

Joan Samuelson- 84 Olympics let's it rip early and no one has the nads to go with her....

Viren. he sat back patiently in all of his Olympic wins confident and cool, even after he got knocked down in the '72 10k. He had those races by the balls before they even began.

I'll agree, Kastor's patience in Athens was incredible and ballsy as hell!

What about Snell. the lacked speed, but his strategy was amazing

Tergot in x-c and on the roads.