I62340 wrote:
What do you want? A video of Sleazar rubbing his prescription into his son's loins?
What? Absolutely not. I don't think you read my entire post. No one is disputing that the "experiment" took place. AlSal admitted as much. It is also very obvious that the androgel was Alberto's. However, legally speaking, couldn't they claim otherwise and probably provide "proof" to support their claim? I think so.
Cooking wrote:
Can you explain in detail the lies? I don't remember Cook being central to anything.
He was just another who opens his mouth to make Salazar look bad out of spite.
He was caught lying saying his relationship with Rowbury was dead as soon as she decided to go to Salazar and insinuated things. He said he wrote her a letter saying it was over and that was it. Roxbury was able to prove Cook many times tried to reach out to her and that it was unite the opposite. Also that Cook lied about his relationship with her family.
He also had to retract a statement where he tried to insinuate he knew something after it turned out he was lying.
Almost everyone who said anything was proven to be misleading everyone.
It's taking a long time to find an actual claim.
It's taking time to respond to the endless challenges from the army of NOP attorneys.
I62340 wrote:
What? Absolutely not. I don't think you read my entire post. No one is disputing that the "experiment" took place. AlSal admitted as much. It is also very obvious that the androgel was Alberto's. However, legally speaking, couldn't they claim otherwise and probably provide "proof" to support their claim? I think so.
Yeah the androgel thing was the only real sign of anything that would actually be against the rules. And no one will ever be able to prove that the athletes used it.
Pretty neutral on the whole thing myself. Everyones else good is probably cheating so I'd just as soon see some Americans up there too. But I want write a few sentences about how absurd the androgel thing is. Because it cracks me up.
Salazar's claim is this: He ran the tests on his son to make sure he would in some way be able to prevent his athletes being "sabotaged". He was afraid someone would grab Galen, rub testosterone cream all over him, test him for testosterone, and then have him banned. In his response to Magness, Alberto actually calls the androgel experiment "the sabotage test". He cites the Whetstine/Gatlin incident as proof that such a test was necessary.
In this article
http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/trackandfield/news/story?id=2539489Salazar calls the claim that someone could be sabotaged in that way "preposterous".
So either he's lying or he went completely insane in the years between these two incidents. Again, no real proof. If anything I, personally, think it could be cited as a reason to allow some of these substances that are currently banned. Just so we can avoid these situations where the top people in the sport sound like complete and total clowns. These things make me feel stupid just for following the sport you know what I mean? These guys are ripping inhalers before workouts and rubbing testosterone cream on each other and their kids. It might not be cheating but it's weird and pathetic. Go NOP.
There may be criminal investigations taking place. WADA did call for this when the information about Salazar rubbing testosterone gel on his son came out, and there are criminal investigations involving Diack and others in the IAAF (and WADA has delayed the portion of its report dealing with the IAAF because of this). Sending restricted drugs through the mail and giving a prescription medication (Cytomel) to someone who doesn't have a prescription are both Federal Offences.
But, frankly, what Salazar did now seems pretty lame compared to what Diack, the IAAF, and Nike (paying bribes to Kenyan officials on the ARD video) did.
Curiosity Killed the Cat wrote:
Yeah the androgel thing was the only real sign of anything that would actually be against the rules. And no one will ever be able to prove that the athletes used it..
Except prescription drug abuse. And logs of Galen being on testosterone. And smuggling pills through customs. And half a dozen other things you are conveniently ignoring.
Senior Software Engineer wrote:
Well, whatever was discussed so far lacked any evidence. Just a bunch of finger pointing and accusations amounting to an ongoing witch hunt.
It would be nice that if someone accuses another person of wrong doing that they have actual proof, or at least testimony that they actually saw the wrong doing personally.
You mean like when Kara Goucher said "Alberto Salazar gave me this drug to take that I don't have a prescription for and here's the bottle he gave me"? That kind of testimony? Or like when the massage therapist found androgel, syringes, and "mystery vials" in the fridge? Or when Steve Magness found a piece of paper that said Galen Rupp was on testosterone?
Correct.... wrote:
Who should be banned are Cook, Goucher and Magness. Cook was caught lying, Goucher was caught either being misleading or lying or both, and Magness was caught making incredibly stupid and poorly thought out accusations. You literally have to be an idiot to think the questionable testosterone notation on his chart at age 16 was evidence of cheating.
Yeah you'd have to be an idiot to think a chart from a medical doctor that said "this person is on testosterone" is on testosterone.
Pretty sure all of these pro-NOP posters have IP addresses in Beaverton, OR.
dasfasddd wrote:
Pretty sure all of these pro-NOP posters have IP addresses in Beaverton, OR.
A Duck --nic RIP-- is based in Silicone Valley. He was ex-communicated from Beaverton for being an over-the-top 'fanboy'.
Probably disappeared in a storm of Nickie money
coach d wrote:
There may be criminal investigations taking place. WADA did call for this when the information about Salazar rubbing testosterone gel on his son came out, and there are criminal investigations involving Diack and others in the IAAF (and WADA has delayed the portion of its report dealing with the IAAF because of this). Sending restricted drugs through the mail and giving a prescription medication (Cytomel) to someone who doesn't have a prescription are both Federal Offences.
But, frankly, what Salazar did now seems pretty lame compared to what Diack, the IAAF, and Nike (paying bribes to Kenyan officials on the ARD video) did.
What are you stupid or just not aware.
WADA would not investigate anybody for doing anything with their children in a purely speculative matter.
Everything you state is speculation that it ever happened in the selective memory so called those in know regurgitate.
"Well, whatever was discussed so far lacked any evidence. Just a bunch of finger pointing and accusations amounting to an ongoing witch hunt."
-haven't heard that kind of language since the days of Armstrong! Nice!
dasfasddd wrote:
Curiosity Killed the Cat wrote:Yeah the androgel thing was the only real sign of anything that would actually be against the rules. And no one will ever be able to prove that the athletes used it..
Except prescription drug abuse. And logs of Galen being on testosterone. And smuggling pills through customs. And half a dozen other things you are conveniently ignoring.
Senior Software Engineer wrote:
Well, whatever was discussed so far lacked any evidence. Just a bunch of finger pointing and accusations amounting to an ongoing witch hunt.
It would be nice that if someone accuses another person of wrong doing that they have actual proof, or at least testimony that they actually saw the wrong doing personally.
You mean like when Kara Goucher said "Alberto Salazar gave me this drug to take that I don't have a prescription for and here's the bottle he gave me"? That kind of testimony? Or like when the massage therapist found androgel, syringes, and "mystery vials" in the fridge? Or when Steve Magness found a piece of paper that said Galen Rupp was on testosterone?
Correct.... wrote:
Who should be banned are Cook, Goucher and Magness. Cook was caught lying, Goucher was caught either being misleading or lying or both, and Magness was caught making incredibly stupid and poorly thought out accusations. You literally have to be an idiot to think the questionable testosterone notation on his chart at age 16 was evidence of cheating.
Yeah you'd have to be an idiot to think a chart from a medical doctor that said "this person is on testosterone" is on testosterone.
Pretty sure all of these pro-NOP posters have IP addresses in Beaverton, OR.
1) there were no "logs". There was a notation and it didn't say he was taking testosterone. Conveniently wording it in your favor, as a lying dirtbag would.
2) Kara did have a prescription. Just not for that bottle. Another one of Kara's misleading statements which you now use misleadingly as well.
3) Salazar doesn't deny he had androgel. So not sure what your point is about it being found. Syringes also don't mean anything and they were accounted for legitamently. You some wet behind the ears moron who thinks syringes are only for nepharious uses?
Not an Oregon IP. Nice try loser.
dasfasddd wrote:
Except prescription drug abuse. And logs of Galen being on testosterone. And smuggling pills through customs. And half a dozen other things you are conveniently ignoring.
And yes, you bring up some of "half-dozen." some you leave out. Let's focus on the really strong evidence that one of the star witnesses, Kara Goucher, brought to the authorities:
1) Alberto said something negative about Tyler Hamilton dishing on Lance.
2) Galen set an AR 2 weeks after saying he was tired
3) Alberto gave Kara some thyroid medication, even though she was already on a different thyroid medication.
4) Alberto called Kara fat, and Adam crazy.
If those things don't add up to definite proof of doping, I don't know what does.
Frank N. Stein, MD wrote:
dasfasddd wrote:Except prescription drug abuse. And logs of Galen being on testosterone. And smuggling pills through customs. And half a dozen other things you are conveniently ignoring.
And yes, you bring up some of "half-dozen." some you leave out. Let's focus on the really strong evidence that one of the star witnesses, Kara Goucher, brought to the authorities:
1) Alberto said something negative about Tyler Hamilton dishing on Lance.
2) Galen set an AR 2 weeks after saying he was tired
3) Alberto gave Kara some thyroid medication, even though she was already on a different thyroid medication.
4) Alberto called Kara fat, and Adam crazy.
If those things don't add up to definite proof of doping, I don't know what does.
Not to mention her doctor said it was ok for her to go on the same medication.
No, Frankie.
3) Alberto gave Kara some SOMEONE ELSE'S thyroid medication, AND DID NOT KNOW she was already on a different thyroid medication. SALAZAR'S DR BROWN GAVE SALAZAR A GENERIC OKAY FOR "AN ATHLETE" WITHOUT AN ACTUAL NAME BEING GIVEN.
Got it? This how the game works. Salazar bought a Dr who had a price he was willing to accept for giving okays based on what Salazar thought he needed to dole out. Salazar could give out the same "an athlete" letter to cover for anyone he pleases.
Loserrrrrrrrrrrr wrote:
Not to mention her doctor said it was ok for her to go on the same medication.
Dr Brown was not her doctor. He was Salazar's purchased Dr. Her real Doctor told her to not take a drug he did not prescribe. Salazar only provided a letter and has no real prescription to give to prove he was right.
Salazar should not have anyone else's drug prescription. That is a no-no and he should be banned solely for that. Having other people's prescriptions that he fills for them is not acceptable.
If Kara didn't take what was in the bottle then why was it empty?
Her real Dr. told her not to take the specific drug that Salazar gave her. He should not just be banned for that. What he did is a felony. As I said above, the head of WADA called for a criminal investigation in the US when the allegations came out. They are not going to say anything about the investigation until it's concluded.
Evidence.
nikeman wrote:
If Kara didn't take what was in the bottle then why was it empty?
coach d wrote:
They are not going to say anything about the investigation until it's concluded.
True. And the Salazar's Oregon Project will thrown the legal guard dogs to squash everything. Money can buy silence if attorney thrown enough obstacles/hurdles in the way to protect the name brand of the Oregon Project. Expect Farah, the likely richest of the OP people, to provide financial assistance to protect the OP and thereby his own brand. All is lost if Salazar goes down.