why can't I break 60 in the 400?

Lydiard is God wrote:

That means learning to sprint, or, at least, go as fast as you can over up to 7-8 seconds (alactic), with full rest in between efforts. Only when you have optimised that skill, and done all the other cool stuff like movement screening, body weight exercise and circuits, form improvement, etc, is there any point doing (increasingly lactic) reps that go any longer.

LOL WTF is movement screening

slow twitchie wrote:

The reason you can't break 60 in the 400m is because you're genetically slow. My times in the 800m/1600m are about the same as yours and my lifetime PB in the 400m is 59.x. I also probably know more about training for speed than anyone on the planet.

How?

why change? wrote:

Lydiard is God wrote:

That means learning to sprint, or, at least, go as fast as you can over up to 7-8 seconds (alactic), with full rest in between efforts. Only when you have optimised that skill, and done all the other cool stuff like movement screening, body weight exercise and circuits, form improvement, etc, is there any point doing (increasingly lactic) reps that go any longer.

LOL WTF is movement screening

Undoubtedly, there are many and varied ways of looking at these things, but this outfit have spent considerable time and effort working it out.

Read the article entitled 'what the screen is really'. Efficient and safe movement patterns are the bottom of the performance pyramid, but most people neglect it. General athleticism and specific skill should be built on a strong and balanced base. You have to move well (in a fundamental way) before you can push the body hard. It is much more than just the 'core'.

You need to do interval work at 15 second per 100m and slightly below that pace. 12x150m or 10 x200 for example. You need to feel comfortable at that sort of rhythm. You will be surprised how quickly you will improve, just from a more fluid and efficient rhythm. Not just the higher anaerobic component of the sessions. Hey we will make an 800m man out of you yet.

Seriously how many distance runners (the majority on this site) ever make a serious attempt to train and race for the 400 m? I ran a couple of 58 second 400s without using spikes or blocks which may have knocked off another second or two. My problem was that I good go out in around 27 at the halfway point but I would start to tighten up badly and the last 100 m was agony. This indicates--I would have had to spend some time seriously training to get through the last 100 m not just race one sporadically and think that I mastered the distance--not that I ever possessed any innate talent for that distance.

I started running in March and in June I ran 58.6 in trainers with no specific training (400 repeats was the closest thing). I had a 21:xx 5K at the time. I'm 33.

I think it was a combo of soccer 1x per week and a lot of squats and deadlifts before I started running.

You also have to just go for it and hold nothing back. I wanted to give up halfway through and for the last 100 everything blurred, I had tunnel vision, and the world was shattering.

If you're not holding back the vomit for at least 10 minutes afterwards, you didn't go hard enough.

A lot of Pendejos posting here...

There are two ways to improve speed, a longer stride and faster leg turnover; Bud Winter said that.

Get a copy of his book "So You Want to be a Sprinter" to truly understand what speed is all about then incorporate an actual sprint session once per week during the base phase of your training. [quote]Kev2 wrote:

Do this

Mon- 2xmile warmup, agilities, starts, 1x100, 1x200, 1x400, 1x600, 1x800, 1x600, 1x400, 1x200, 1x100, rest, 6xshort steep hills, 2xmile warm-down. run all good effort, full recovery. Do some squat jumps after later that evening (3x10). Be careful and don't injure self. Might skip the 100's if too much. The 100s and 200s should be faster than 400 meter race pace.

Tues- easy dist 7-10 miles

Wed- rest

Thurs-repeat mon

Fri-repeat tues

Sat-long steep hill run 45 min to 1hr

You should be able to race 400, 800, and mile off that schedule and improve your 400 time.

Also do some pushups, pullups, and dips. Upper body strenghth will help your 400m time.

Push ups, dips , pull ups dont help running. They make you heavy and slow and limit your arm motion by titghtening you. Kiprop, bekele, Lagat, Rupp, Kipchoge, Mo, Haile, Kipsang all these guys dont do it or even think about it. And they are still fast. They will tell you while laughing pull ups "Thats for army boys".

But Meb does Pull ups and push ups.

Just Sprint, do core work ( body weight). Run short Hills 20 seconds fast until your balls shrink. You will run 54 sec. You have it in you just tarin.

You are welcome.

Lydiard is God wrote:

As usual, no-one has actually recommended anything that has any chance of improving this guy's (assuming not troll) actual speed. No matter how slow-twitch you think you are, if you want to maximise speed, you must train it specifically.

That means learning to sprint, or, at least, go as fast as you can over up to 7-8 seconds (alactic), with full rest in between efforts. Only when you have optimised that skill, and done all the other cool stuff like movement screening, body weight exercise and circuits, form improvement, etc, is there any point doing (increasingly lactic) reps that go any longer.

Go to a coach competent in sprints, and tell him you want to develop that aspect of your running as much as possible.

Alactic sprinting will do little or nothing to improve one's 400m, first because alactic sprinting ability is almost totally genetic and second because the 400m isn't alactic sprinting. The best way to train for any distance is to do workout specific to that distance

dont worry pal! my dad couldn't break 60 for 400m either and he ran Fukuoka in 2:10:15 (NR) in 1982. You'll be sweet, just probably not at 400m competitive sprints ;)

Slow twitchie - sorry, but you're wrong. The faster your top speed is, the more comfortable your first 200 of a 400 at a certain pace is.

The more comfortable your first 200 is, the stronger you will be over the 2nd 200. Part of building strength for the 2nd 200 of a 400 is improving your speed reserve.

Building speed reserve is a crucial yet undervalued part of training for the 400.

Alactic is almost totally genetic, right? So why do 100 runners need to train at all?

Sorry, but your comment is incredibly naïve. On your reasoning, a 400 runner only ever trains at 400 speed, an 800 runner only trains at 800 speed etc. That's fundamentally wrong. You need to work out what the components to running fast at your nominated distance are, work on each of them, AND work at current and goal race speed. Then put it all together when it counts.

LiG - from what I could tell, your boy got a couple of 4ths at state. I guess I won't see you in Melbourne then - maybe Perth. Mine is currently sick - hope he is strong enough by Melbourne and to get a bit of work in, cause it can take a while to get over these things. He went for 400 only in the end.

Hi, KP

Yes, indeed. He was ready to have a real crack at the Nat XC, but got a fever/flu thing on the Tuesday before the race that Saturday. The temp settled, but he was stuffed by then, and came well down the field. C'est la vie.

He didn't quite get back into it properly, gave the 8 a temporary miss, and decided to save himself for March.

We also discovered that, if he doesn't keep up stamina work like cruise intervals, 'effort runs', and get enough 5/3k pace in, he goes off the boil. A constant diet of faster-paced shorter reps messes with him, especially as his coach did hardly any of that other stuff leading up the track finals. Definitely has a decent number of Type I fibres, sufficient IIa fibres, and enough IIb to be helpful.

The sprint stuff still happens. Got to maximise that!

Hope your lad gets well soon. He's more IIa/IIb huh?

How much can you squat, OP?

I haven't tried squatting before also I'm only 5 foot 10 and 134 pounds.

Those guys you mentioned are fast, but just about every 400m guy training for the 400m does upper body weights. Those guys you mentioned could improve their 400 times with weights also but would take a hit in the longer distances.

Lydiard is God wrote:

why change? wrote:

LOL WTF is movement screening

Undoubtedly, there are many and varied ways of looking at these things, but this outfit have spent considerable time and effort working it out.

http://www.functionalmovement.com/

Read the article entitled 'what the screen is really'. Efficient and safe movement patterns are the bottom of the performance pyramid, but most people neglect it. General athleticism and specific skill should be built on a strong and balanced base. You have to move well (in a fundamental way) before you can push the body hard. It is much more than just the 'core'.

Oh so calisthenics.

Sorry I am old and missed the new fad name.

1. Talk to your coaches (distance/XC coach, who will probably recommend you talk with the sprint coach). Form is very important.

2. Count your strides per minute over various distances/effort levels (all-out 20 sec., easy 40-min run, tempo run).

3. Videotaping your sprint form (a video of your 800 PR could be helpful if you have it) should offer some insight (obviously you'll need to watch these with some sort of expert).

4. You should get naturally faster.

5. Some strength should help, but you have to know how to use it.

6. As stated by many posters, reps of 50-150 meters will be the best.

7. Speed is great to have an important to a point, but obviously the longer the distance the less it matters (to an extent...). You should definitely be able to run sub-30 200s in practice, but once you're at that point you shouldn't need to work on building more speed--just keep up the strides (if you don't already do strides a couple/few times a week, start) after easy runs.