Hector Morph wrote:
So body types don't exist? A gymnast looks like a Victoria's Secret model to you?
Why are people so against names and categories?
I'm sure there is a name for that disorder.
Body types exist. Somatotypes don't. They were debunked in the 1940's. They are more archaic pseudoscience than homeopathy. Please, try to keep up.
Imperial Miler wrote:
Hector Morph wrote:So body types don't exist? A gymnast looks like a Victoria's Secret model to you?
Why are people so against names and categories?
I'm sure there is a name for that disorder.
Body types exist. Somatotypes don't. They were debunked in the 1940's. They are more archaic pseudoscience than homeopathy. Please, try to keep up.
Hey, I have a great idea!. Let's call body types different names. It will be different but exactly the same.
Mesomorphs would dominate ALL running if you could use trekking poles, maybe.
Hector Morph wrote:
Hey, I have a great idea!. Let's call body types different names. It will be different but exactly the same.
Once again, somatotypes was an attempt to categorise people into groups that shared personality traits and behaviours based on physical measurements. If you want to call someone fat then go ahead but 'endomorph' is just stupid. It implies that this person is born into a 'body type' (and personality type) which is permanent; it's just not true. A fat person can start running and become what you think is a mesomorph. There are no scientific, cultural, physical or psychological determinants to split a so called 'mesomorph' from an 'ectomorph', for example. Nobody is being PC and saying there is no such thing as being overweight or underweight. You anti-PC types are worse than the idiots that try to pretend that every body is the same. Stop thinking you are being so clever.
Metric Miler wrote:
Hector Morph wrote:Hey, I have a great idea!. Let's call body types different names. It will be different but exactly the same.
Once again, somatotypes was an attempt to categorise people into groups that shared personality traits and behaviours based on physical measurements. If you want to call someone fat then go ahead but 'endomorph' is just stupid. It implies that this person is born into a 'body type' (and personality type) which is permanent; it's just not true. A fat person can start running and become what you think is a mesomorph. There are no scientific, cultural, physical or psychological determinants to split a so called 'mesomorph' from an 'ectomorph', for example. Nobody is being PC and saying there is no such thing as being overweight or underweight. You anti-PC types are worse than the idiots that try to pretend that every body is the same. Stop thinking you are being so clever.
Forget the personality traits and use the names as strictly for body type. They are perfect. Many people also split them into sub categories such as ecto-mesomorph. Those work perfectly well too.
For smart people.
You can do what you like, you are still wrong. It's like using old racists terms to describe cultures and groups of people today. Just shows ignorance.
Metric Miler wrote:
You can do what you like, you are still wrong. It's like using old racists terms to describe cultures and groups of people today. Just shows ignorance.
Nope. Categories are fine.
You just said "like the idiots" so clearly you don't mind using similar terms when they suit you.
Precious Roy wrote:
...baseball, soccer, basketball. Those sports always have the pick of the top high school athletes just because of the attention and status kids get for participating in those sports. If XC and track had the same status as football, I think we would have a better idea of whether the advantage of body type can be overcome.
In parts of Europe track is near the top of the pile (after soccer). You still only see skinny guys at the top - in distance running.
You do, however, see countries like Sweden punching above their weight in field events with "normal" shaped people doing well. Kluft, Holm, other jumpers and vaulters. I've always suspected those naturally gifted athletic types would have gone into other sports if they'd grown up in the US.
Hector Morph wrote:
Imperial Miler wrote:The question was can a mesomorph make an elite distance runner, and the answer is no. Mesomorphs don't exist and you can't be an elite runner if you don't exist.
But he said "to answer your question" and then gave a name of a guy who exists.
Haha the Letsrun aspies are out!
Ruining a great thread as usual.
Precious Roy wrote:
The whole meso/ecto/endo thing is nothing more than a very broad generalization of the expression of different genetics that affect body type. Some people have muscles that gain mass very quickly when doing strength training. Others can strength train all day and see very little gain in muscle mass. Some people store most of their body fat subcutaneously. They can look a little doughy even when they are in very good shape. Others store very little fat under their skin, making them look very cut even when they are not working out a lot. Bone structure tends to associate with muscle type. Bigger bones tend to correlate with muscles that are more efficient at gaining mass.
It has always been the assumption that a lighter frame is required to be a distance runner simply because of the physics involved. But there are some very notable exceptions. Craig Mottram, Solinsky, Jason Hartmann and others have had notable distance running careers despite carrying 40+ lbs more than their competitors. Of course, they were not power lifting much during their pro careers and carried as little weight as possible. But, they do show that it is possible for larger athletes to succeed at distance running. It also raises the question of whether that body type is simply selected out of the running pool because guys like that would be more likely to play baseball, soccer, basketball or football. Those sports always have the pick of the top high school athletes just because of the attention and status kids get for participating in those sports. If XC and track had the same status as football, I think we would have a better idea of whether the advantage of body type can be overcome.
I saw mottram a few feet away at millrose one year. other than his height that guy was about as skinny as any elite runner. pictures make runners look bigger.
Metric Miler wrote:
If you want to call someone fat then go ahead but 'endomorph' is just stupid. It implies that this person is born into a 'body type' (and personality type) which is permanent; it's just not true. A fat person can start running and become what you think is a mesomorph.
This is the dumbest crap I've ever read; it's downright endomorphic.
Kidding. But seriously, take out the personality part (which admittedly sounds more idiotic than phrenology), and you have very REAL body types.
My kid is three. He's going to a birthday party with 20+ kids today (another story). Are you telling me that if I tell you with a gun to your head you have one minute to go fetch me the kid most likely to succeed in marathoning, most likely to be a gold-medal weightlifter, and most likely to succeed as a sumo wrestler, you won't predictably bring back the ones with BODY TYPES I label as ecto, meso and endo? BS. If you bring me anything other than the skinniest, huskiest and fattest kid in that playroom, you lose bad and we all know it.
Metric Miler probably couldn't even locate his own kid at the party.
I clearly said that overweight and underweight people obviously exist. And, of course, an overweight kid is not going to make a good marathoner, in his current state. But if he lost a few pounds and started training he might. The endomorph term suggests he is stuck as an overweight kid because he was born like it.
I don't know why you have to bring guns into it, highly unnecessary. I'd choose the best at each sport based on what they look like with no problems.
The terms you are using suggest that a person who is currently overweight would have trouble gaining muscle because they are an 'endomorph' and only the 'mesomorph' types can gain muscle well. Just not true. The person could easily just be lazy. A person's genetic ability to build muscle or be better at endurance events is not easily determined by looking at them.
Using these old fashioned terms makes you look ignorant, like calling a Black man 'coloured'.
Metric miler is right, those somatotypes have led to misunderstandings and harmful false beliefs about exercise science, like how you need to diet a certain way depending on which of three body categories you permanently fall into, or how blacks and jews suck. Yes there is such a thing as fat, skinny, and muscular, beyond that is where the pseudoscience begins. We have a much better understanding of things like FT/ST fibers to explain any genetic differences between people.
HardLoper wrote:
Metric miler is right, those somatotypes have led to misunderstandings and harmful false beliefs about exercise science, like how you need to diet a certain way depending on which of three body categories you permanently fall into, or how blacks and jews suck. Yes there is such a thing as fat, skinny, and muscular, beyond that is where the pseudoscience begins. We have a much better understanding of things like FT/ST fibers to explain any genetic differences between people.
You'll also want to check out their VO2 max along with judging their body type.
If they are colored that's even better.
Imperial Miler wrote:
Hector Morph wrote:Know how I know you guys are mesomorphs wishing you were also an anomaly?
How could I be a mesomorph, if they don't exist? How is this so hard for you to grasp?
You are right. Youre not a meso, youre in a whole class of your own: the autismorph
They are passe terms, yet they are pretty physically recognizable, and it is not that the mesomorph is 'just right', but rather your burly athletic type, whereas the ectomorph is the Galen Rupp type (5'11-140), typical of American distance runners, and the endomorph is fat.
Your ignorance is profound on this topic. An endomorph isn't just an overweight person: evidence the obvious physiognomic differences between two people of the same weight, such as Bob Kennedy (endomorph) and Lopez Lamong (mesomorph). I've known women in particular who are naturally vey low in body fat, with rippling muscles who deliberately did NO exercise in order to avoid having even bigger musculature, and were very self-conscious that there mesomorphic genetics made them appear less feminine. Yet most would swear on appearance alone that they were fitness fanatics. Nope, pure genetics.Also, I know of a 2:21 marathoner (on low mileage) who had the upper body of a bodybuilder, and everyone assumed he hit the gym on the regular. In fact, he never touched weights and came to me to find out if it would help for him to run over 100-mile weeks in order to lose some muscle. As a somewhat smaller-frame mesomorpoh myself, I had to be honest that running as much as 120 miles a week made no difference, unless you were willing to go hungry.People evolve as social animals, and having a physical "niche" in a tribal environment ("the guy who lifts heavy things", "the guy who can run all day", etc.) gave intratribal diversity and assured a role and means that we are genetically specialized to operate within genetic parameters of physical capability, and body types are the result. Cultural Marxist/Lysenkoists maintain that a Shaq O'Neill is only a vegan diet and a year of 100-mile weeks away from a sub-2:20 marathon. He just needs to "want" it. Meanwhile Nature sets the rules and scoffs at the delusional.
Metric Miler wrote:
I clearly said that overweight and underweight people obviously exist. And, of course, an overweight kid is not going to make a good marathoner, in his current state. But if he lost a few pounds and started training he might. The endomorph term suggests he is stuck as an overweight kid because he was born like it.
I don't know why you have to bring guns into it, highly unnecessary. I'd choose the best at each sport based on what they look like with no problems.
The terms you are using suggest that a person who is currently overweight would have trouble gaining muscle because they are an 'endomorph' and only the 'mesomorph' types can gain muscle well. Just not true. The person could easily just be lazy. A person's genetic ability to build muscle or be better at endurance events is not easily determined by looking at them.
Using these old fashioned terms makes you look ignorant, like calling a Black man 'coloured'.