LRC Discussion: Finding the proper way to discuss eating disorders/women's weight issues on LetsRun.com

wejo wrote:

Thoughtful post. One question. If people are pointed out for being "too thin" would that actually help someone struggling with anorexia? If they can see others don't want people to be this thin could it help them?

I don't think athletes need to be named.

I think for sure allowing discussion of eating disorders helps people battling them.

I'm not sure you can have a full and (pardon the choice of words) healthy discussion about eating disorders without naming specific athletes, though. One important reason why I think it is important for this type of thing to be discussed is so that we don't implicitly tolerate eating disorders as a competitive running community. If we just never mention it, pretend not to notice when a dangerously thin girl runs a fast time or wins a big race, or when a team with several dangerously thin girls bursts on to the scene, we are implicitly saying that we tolerate and accept this kind of behavior in our sport.

I do think there are specific programs and coaches that at least tolerate, if not encourage, very unhealthy eating habits. I know of one Big 10 women's team whose coach would distribute 1500 Calorie "diet plans" to the team's athletes every season (while running 60+ mpw of course). I don't see how we'd be able to have a discussion about eating disorders at [College X] (or, for that matter, [Pro Team X]) without naming specific coaches and athletes. The events of the past week are a good example of this. How could we discuss this without naming specific names?

Again, I want to reiterate that this is a really important thing to discuss on LetsRun, because there are not many other places where you could find out this kind of stuff. If I was coaching a talented high school girl, or if I was one myself, I would want to have a place I could go to get real information about what goes on at certain college programs.

If parents show up in public with their kids, and their kids have bruises all over their face, you've got a right to be suspicious. You've even got a responsibility to start naming names. If a mediocre track athlete starts running insane times at age 30+, and also starts wearing braces, having lots of acne, and suddenly gets really ripped muscles, we also have a responsibility to start talking about it. I think eating disorders in general and weight in particular fall in with these analogies.

It's a difficult issue. I understand why it's risky to allow anonymous strangers to be commenting on whether or not a particular woman (especially an amateur) is too skinny--or too fat, for that matter, which is probably worse. I don't like it. I just think we need to be careful not to send a signal to coaches and athletes that we tolerate eating disorders and dangerously low weight because we don't allow discussion of it.

Is it possible to talk about a coach or a program without naming specific athletes? I'm not sure. It's vital to be able to talk about coaches and programs, though.

"People need to see why she is being discussed and to view the extreme condition she is in. It is sad and it is very uncomfortable to look at and those close to her don't want to see her being a topic of discussion"

She is a beautiful 19 year old woman. I feel love not sadness.

We aren't there. We don't know what is going on, what has happened in the last 5 years of her life.

We are projecting our internal states on to the visual situation that is presented to us.

Zero Sum wrote:

I don't see anyone up in arms because the brosjo have all the money in the world yet won't spend a dime to get decent haircuts.

I have no idea what that has to do with anything, but it literally made me LOL.

As a female collegiate athlete, and as someone who was once a female high school athlete, I think it's important that eating disorders can be discussed on letsrun. Many programs, both at the high school and collegiate level, don't allow for visibility of the issue. When it happens, it's swept under the rug. On a team without any eating problems, often education on eating disorders isn't offered out of fear that bringing the up topic will allow for its manifestation. Without information, it can seem like some of those really fast girls got abnormally thin by simply training to run abnormally fast. One might start to try to emulate their thinness hoping to join their super fast classification. When one sees some success, they try a bit harder. Suddenly, you have a girl with an eating disorder who thinks she's just "trying hard" because she's "dedicated to her sport". I think that's a pretty typical format for eating disorder developement. And, while letsrun doesn't have a Huge female population, we do log on here. It saved my life and several additional hospital visits to see a thread debating about whether one of my idols had a health issue(eating disorder). It helped even more that, in addition to bringing up eating disorders, the thread contained several pages of comments talking about how bad eating disorders were. That discussion made me stop automatically thinking "I'll be a few seconds faster next time if I can drop 2 more lbs". Weight loss turned from a performance enhancer to a possible problem. The basement lurkers on letsrun actually made me start aiming to look strong instead of starved. Keep the eating disorder discussions up. Open forum.

Johnsons,

After thinking about this a bit more I think that you as site owners should limit your exposure to possible legal action. The question to ask should be "Can we afford a lawsuit and negative exposure brought on by a victims family that claims their son or daugher is dead because of online bullying allowed on our messageboard?"

Again, it's about respect.

As a fellow female LetsRun member and someone who has had an eating disorder, I agree with this post. The wealth of information and brutal honesty here saved me from giving up on running all together back when I was suffering related health problems and injuries. That said, there's a difference between discussing eating disorders and picking on an individual based on how they look.

Great minds discuss ideas;

Average minds discuss events;

Small minds discuss people.

Letsrun is the wrong tool for this. If you HONESTLY gave one iota of crap about this, there are various other outlets to direct your energy.

The boundless depths of ignorance and depravity of Letsrun never fails to amaze me.

To the Johnsons,

Thank you for taking this topic so seriously. I am married to a 35-year old woman who is a petite 5'2" and has weighed a consistent 95 lbs for the 15 years I have known her. She does NOT have an eating disorder. Quite the contrary. She loves food and eats a ton, albeit healthy, organic food typically. She is not a fan of putting "junk" (fast food, candy, etc...) in her body. She prefers natural foods. She also has a very sensitive digestive system and takes medication for it. Her stomach simply feels better day-to-day by eating healthy.

I have seen first hand the emotional damage she has sustained over the years as people accuse her of having an eating disorder (and it's always people who don't even really know her who seem to feel the need to voice their opinion). It has completely destroyed her self-image and even effected her enjoyment of running. She has run one marathon and is reluctant to run a second because she's afraid of burning additional calories and looking even thinner than she already does. In the last couple years, she has taken up weight lifting in an attempt to look stronger and also to gain weight. Now she looks ripped as hell but the scales haven't moved. She has cut back her running in an attempt to gain weight. Still can't do it.

The bottom line is her body has a fast metabolism and it seems that she can't put on weight no matter how hard she tries, unless she just wants to consume unhealthy junk. All of her yearly blood tests (and other medical tests) with her annual physical always come back immaculate, saying she is extremely healthy. But, I have lost track of how many times she has ended up in tears because of a comment someone has made about how thin she is. I can only imagine what the criticism of a teenage girl (or boy) in the national spotlight would do to their mental well-being. We already know that the suicide rate is high for people struggling with eating disorders and body image. I cannot see how subjecting them to anonymous criticism would make the situation any better. And subjecting someone who does NOT have an eating disorder, but is accused of it, can be just as damaging as they are likely struggling with body image issues too, even though they may not have disordered eating habits.

What is most disturbing is that the vast majority of the people quick to criticize the young people and their coaches have absolutely zero connection to them, nor any knowledge of their situations. They don't know the student-athletes. They don't know their parents. They don't know their coaches. To start throwing around accusations and saying the people around them don't care is simply not helpful and could also be damaging to the situation.

I hope you will take a strong stance on accusing specific individuals of having eating disorders and/or criticizing their physical appearance, as it relates to weight. I can see the benefits and merits of general discussions on eating disorders and body image overall. But attacking individuals will have far more harmful effects than positive ones.

Discussing the weight of female runners is harmful to the many who already have or will develop an unhealthy obsession with their weight, it is none of our business, and it is irrelevant to their performances. What they run they run. It serves no laudable purpose to have strangers around the world speculating about their weight and the reasons for it. If they're so thin as to be unhealthy, let them, their coaches, families, and friends deal with it; if they're overweight by the standards of distance runners, so be it--that doesn't make them unhealthy by anyone else's standards and they will deal with the consequences themselves if it affects their running negatively. The training swamps weight as a factor in running among athletes of this caliber, national or international attention, so let's not take the focus away from what is important.

wejo wrote:

One question. If people are pointed out for being "too thin" would that actually help someone struggling with anorexia? If they can see others don't want people to be this thin could it help them?

I don't think athletes need to be named.

I think for sure allowing discussion of eating disorders helps people battling them.

I can't think of anything more irresponsible than coming up with your policy related to anonymous discussions of eating disorders by relying largely on anonymous comments. Why don't you actually speak to people with eating disorders and ask them if it would have helped if they would have had an "intervention" by LR posters? You can speak to people after eating disorder meetings. You can also speak with professionals who counsel persons with eating disorders and ask questions. The only danger is you might not get the answers you're hoping for. :-)

wejo wrote:

BellisColdwine wrote:

Go ahead. Talk about runner X not running well. But don't go on and on calling them fat. Because that's never the root cause.

Thoughtful post. One question. If people are pointed out for being "too thin" would that actually help someone struggling with anorexia? If they can see others don't want people to be this thin could it help them?

I don't think athletes need to be named.

I think for sure allowing discussion of eating disorders helps people battling them.

Unfortunately, I don't think someone w/AN will think or see someone "too thin" to be helpful or think twice about it since they are too consumed w/their own issue.

I do think the topic should be discussed but should not name athletes. Just my humble opinion.

Fully agree. I have coined the term "starvoids" and "starvoid abuse" to highlight that especially for females ages 15-20, EDs can have a strong short-term PED effect on performance. It needs to be brought to bear that this practice is in effect cheating, dangerous and unethical in a sport where metabolic hacks like this undermine the achievements of those who excel instead through patient and healthy training.

Someone's mom wrote:

There has never been an important social change made without some discomfort. Your site could be an agent of change. I have no problem with keeping names and photos off the site, but don't silence the honest voices. And often those voices can't be honest with a signature at the bottom.

.

I really liked most of your post but don't you think that you could have been just as honest as "someone's mom" registered user?

Many people, myself included, use registered handles on this board that are pseudonyms. With judicial use of your handle you could remain unknown to the vast majority of those who post here (my handle is known to some but many others have no idea who I am ).

not registered yet wrote:

I really question whether eating disorders are that much more prevalent in women. Or does having 10x the testosterone of a women spare enough muscle that men who are struggling look dramatically healthier due to having so much more muscle on their bones.

+1

It just seems that when men are rail thin, they are "in shape" and "watching their diet".

[quote]Tgirl wrote:

With judicial use of your handle

Sorry -I meant judicious

On the other hand one anonymous poster gave away the college she attends with her handle. How anonymous is that?

happykat wrote:

not registered yet wrote:

I really question whether eating disorders are that much more prevalent in women. Or does having 10x the testosterone of a women spare enough muscle that men who are struggling look dramatically healthier due to having so much more muscle on their bones.

+1

It just seems that when men are rail thin, they are "in shape" and "watching their diet".

Yes men can have a lower body fat percentage and remain healthy. Women require a highly body fat percentage in order to remain healthy--bone health and reproductive health in the form of menstruating naturally. Having extremely low body fat commonly causes amenorrhea in female athletes. Amenorrhea (absence of mentruation) and the "femal athlete triad" causes bone density to diminish. Low bone density (osteopenia) leads to osteoporosis. So yes, there's serveral reasons why men can "look rail thin" with a lower body fat percentage and still be healthy because they're not dependent upon estrogen in the same way women are to protect their bones and to menstruate.

Tgirl wrote:

Someone's mom wrote:

There has never been an important social change made without some discomfort. Your site could be an agent of change. I have no problem with keeping names and photos off the site, but don't silence the honest voices. And often those voices can't be honest with a signature at the bottom.

.

I really liked most of your post but don't you think that you could have been just as honest as "someone's mom" registered user?

Many people, myself included, use registered handles on this board that are pseudonyms. With judicial use of your handle you could remain unknown to the vast majority of those who post here (my handle is known to some but many others have no idea who I am ).

She put her real email in. Not sure how that's "being anonymous"

I wonder whether Letsrun could reach out to a therapist who specializes in eating disorders for advice? I am a middle-aged female who swam competitively through college. I saw lots of eating disorders - it was more subtle, and perhaps harder to detect, vs running because swimmers tend to build more upper body muscle mass. Also, anecdotally, there may have been more bulimia vs AN.

One coach whom I particularly respect spoke with therapists in the area at the time for advice on how to talk about eating disorders. This made sense to me. As a non-expert, I don't know whether it helps to have athletes or programs scrutinized here. I worry about feeding in to the shame and self-loathing that I suspect prevents many sufferers from seeking help. And, I absolutely worry about the trolls - especially with regard to posts on the appearance of young athletes -- especially girls.

In a sense, EDs in students are like concussions in youth sports. The kid who got knocked around wants to go back in the game. The coach may feel pressure to let the kid back in - especially if the kid is good. The problem is that there are life-long consequences to concussions -- years later, the "kid" has bad headaches, depression and other symptoms of traumatic brain injury. That is why current and former players are pushing for concussion protocols - time out, evaluation, etc before the kid can go back in. If we give coaches and parents tools and standards, we create a space for dialog and build in protections for coaches and athlete who may not be able to exercise great judgment on their own

I'd like to hear from experts in EDs about how to raise concerns, what best practices are for coaches or teammates with concerns, etc. I think there needs to be a dialog in running, but I want to have that dialog in a way that helps and empowers. Could LRC reach out and commission something from a specialist?

Sorry for the double post. I meant to say that I ran XC (along with swimming, which was my primary sport then). Our coach certainly cared about disordered eating, but there seemed to be much more of a code of silence/denial in the running world then. Girls, in particular, can get very fast before puberty -- especially lean runner-types. Once puberty hits, some girls fall into disordered eating as a way to hold on to the body that they once had. Arming coaches, parents, and teammates with information from an expert might help -- especially for girls working through growth spurts, etc.