Easy transition into flats

Alex,

I have done my own research so I no longer need to ask what someone else thinks. If you want to go to a "podiatrist" for your own understanding then go, but you will not get a true spectrum of all the research that is out there. You will get information that they want you to here and only what they have studied. You won't here about conflicting research that has been done that goes against many of there priciple teachings. Good luck with your search!

Ive ran some longer runs in Puma H's

oddly enough i had a much easier time running barefoot...im not sure why

some thing about the H's just doesnt quite work for me

how's the fit?

Madein_82 wrote:

Ive ran some longer runs in Puma H's

oddly enough i had a much easier time running barefoot...im not sure why

some thing about the H's just doesnt quite work for me

Interesting...

I'm a science guy. What we need here are a couple dozen people willing to participate in a study. We'll have everyone run a 5k before the study to ascertain a baseline. Then we'll have a group switch to training in flats...give 'em enough time to acclimate and get in a good training period. Let the control group do what they will. Then run 'em off again in a 5k and see who makes more gains...those in flats vs. those who contine to run in trainers. There's too much "well I have this friend who did it..", can't be verified and no one pipes up with real results.

It would be hard to prove anyway. Not saying Lawoof's transformation isn't from flats, but a a former body builder, he'd probably be making decent gains as he got more fit over a period of years -- or had he plateaued for quite some time?

I certainly don't think he's plateaued, but in rather, his life has just been non-conducive to good training until the last few months.

Again, with many performance enhancers, the biggest gains will likely be seen from the people with the most to gain. I think that minimalist running is a big performance enhancer because of the efficiency and strength gained -- more efficient footstrike (as illustrated so well by RunningTimes this month, if only they took it a step furhter and talked about Noguchi's training shoes vs/ Deena's) and more power.

Now, say guys like El Guerrouj and Bekele do their easy stuff in Pegs or Spans, but obviously do performance work in road flats or spikes. I don't know that they would gain much of anything in terms of efficiency because of the huge amount of drills they do. But, I think they would have gains to be made from injury prevention.

I think that probably has something to do with it

are far as size go they fit like a glove

i just dont think they are shaped well for my foot, my fifth metatarsal sits about an inch back from were it should.

Therefore, on the inside of the shoe the little piece of rubber that extends up to cover the metatarsal of my big toe lines up perfectly. however, on the ouside the metatarsal is back about an inch from the little piece of rubber, almost leaving that metatarsal hanging out over the midsole. And sine land on the outside midfoot, when running barfoot and in light shoes, its almost like im landing on the edge of the midsole.

i think next time ill just order a wider pair.

By the way , do you think the RC750 would be fairly durable??, to train in

i have a pair of RC330 with god knows how many miles and i love those. but i think im about to wear a hole in the midsole

Trackhead,

Very well put!

stress fracture man here again. i broke my foot in the RC 750s. I was shifting between these and the 950s over 6 weeks. @ 90 miles per week. A hole developed in the EVA just below my second metatarsul, with about 21 days on the RC 750s.

My advice: go with the NB 900s which have just a bit more volume/protection to them. Also, for wide feet, they come in 2E.

to respond to an earlier comment on running in bare feet: i too have noticed that this is lighter on the foot than flats. Your naked foot is very good at responding to what is underneath it rapidly, and micro adjusting. just walk over sharp rocks and notice the automated response system kick in. In flats like the 750 this system is less responsive AND you don't have any cushioning to break impact. i'm not convinced that flats don't give you the worst of both worlds. They dampen sensitivity AND they don't protect your metatarsuls. but this is all intuition/speculation. assman is right, we need MORE quality science here (though his experiment isn't rigorously controlled).

by the way i've had a "gate analysis." i'm solidly mid-forefoot in my strike, slighly forward lean, good knee lift, straight back, -- you can draw lines through me. there's not much room for me to improve there.

my programme when i get back: to run barefooted on grass 2x per week and to walk around barefoote or in low shoes to strengthen my foot. All long runs or long tempo runs on the roads in trainers with a bit more cushioning (nb900s), speed work in spikes/flats. i'm not fu*cking around with my feet anymore.

Here's one data point for the scientifically inclined. I recently switched to flats. Not because I figured they would make me faster, but thought they might help with some long-standing injury problems, thereby enabling me to run again, thereby making me faster.

In college, running 80-90 mile weeks in GT-2010s, ran 15:40 for 5k. Had incessant IT band trouble. Now, after taking three years off due to IT band problems, I'm back to running maybe 60/week, all on dirt roads or trails, all in flats. Have since run 1:15 for half-marathon, which I recognize is not as good as 15:40. This will definitely drop after I have a bit more base, but the main thing for me is that I can run pain-free for the first time in seven years.

Another data point (I don't think he'll mind) is Ian Fraser, a college teammate of mine. He, unlike me, was good in college (sub-9:00 steeple), and he's still good. He now trains almost entirely in flats, and ran 2:24 marathon and 1:09 half-marathon this year. I think for him it has been primarily an injury-prevention thing as well.

Ok, subject line is "Easy transition into flats" but no explanation on how to approach the transition, just discussion on the merits or what shoes to wear. It has been asked in this thread but there was no reply. According to this thread I can swap my Beasts for Cubatos and do my 20 miler this weekend. I'll let you know how I feel on Monday.

anyone?

I think it's been stated several times how gradual a transition it must be.

trackhead wrote:

I think it's been stated several times how gradual a transition it must be.

I'm going to lean towards very gradual vs somewhat gradual or kinda gradual but as always you've been so helpful.

Please continue with the discussion of the merits of H Streets

trackhead:

have noted the attacks on you in some threads that have rightfully been deleted. keep posting mate. the vast majority of us support you, even when we disagree with you.

johnston.

Gotta question and need help...could racing a marathon in flats cause calf cramps to develop midway through the race? Ran my first marathon this past weekend and did so in flats. I've raced up to half-marathons in them with no problem, but use them in training only for speedwork.

I'm light (5'8 and #118), was very well-trained for the distance with 95M weeks and have excellent biomechanics, so I didn't think that it would be a problem to race that far in them, but I think it pounded the heck out my legs. I'm wavering on that being the cause of the calf-cramping vs. electrolyte imbalance because it was warm. Thoughts anyone??? Need to get this figured out -- the cramping limited my performance.

do you know what a marathon is? its 26.2 miles of pounding the heck out of your legs. If you honestly thought you would come out of a marathon chipper and feeling great enough to go run a long run you should either a)quit running b)shoot yourself or c)become a race walker

Hey trackhead, I would really like to start the transition to minimal shoes, but in my current situation I cannot cut back on my mileage. Do you think it would be alright to make the switch from a saucony grid hurricane to something like an asics ds trainer without cutting back my mileage? Or is there another shoe that you would recommend? Thanks.

What???? wrote:Hey trackhead, I would really like to start the transition to minimal shoes, but in my current situation I cannot cut back on my mileage. Do you think it would be alright to make the switch from a saucony grid hurricane to something like an asics ds trainer without cutting back my mileage? Or is there another shoe that you would recommend? Thanks.

please don't bother trackhead with such remedial questions...don't ask how, just where H streets and if you cant find H streets just wear your granny's slippers.

jonat