Which is harder to achieve: a 300 lb bench press, or a 5:00 mile?

Sally V wrote:

elephino wrote:

He ran a sub-4 mile at age 17? That's a pretty short list.

Yes, he used to be on all-time 1500 junior list.

US? Who is he? There have been only 6 US high schoolers in history who have run sub 4. Alan Webb had just turned 18 when he did it. How old was Jim Ryun? Maton? Verzbicas? Danielson? Liquori?

That's the list, right? Ruling Webb out because he was 18, it's gotta be one of those other 5. Anyone want to check their ages when they ran it?

Why aren't you telling us his name? It's pretty cool that you were buddies with one of those guys.

"Reputable bodybuilding mags"

Lol.

This is a ridiculous statement.

Also, comparing a quarter rep smith machine press versus a competition bench press with a slight pause is apples to cantaloupes.

In America, only Jim Ryun has broken 4 for the mile as a 17 year old.

Sally V called the guy a "mate". Sounds like someone from a British Commonwealth country. Steve Cram and Kevin Sullivan broke 4 in highschool in England and Canada. Cram apparently bettered Jim Ryun's 17 year old age record so he must have run 3:59 low or faster at 17.

http://www.britishathletics.org.uk/e-inspire/hall-of-fame-athletes/steve-cram/

I don't think Kevin Sullivan broke 4 until he was 18 or 19. I thought Nike Willis broke 4 in highschool but he "only" ran 4:01.xx in highschool.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Willis

Maybe a few other Commonwealth highschoolers have broken 4 since the 2000s but I'm not sure.

That said, Sallv V is full of it. Maybe he knew someone who broke 4 for 1500 in highschool, but the chances of Sallv V being mates with either Jim Ryun or Steve Cram is so small its ridiculous.

This. This. This. Not only do you treat the OP's subject well, but you provide nice anecdotal evidence that not everyone can run a 5:00 mile or better. I remember a video with John Kellogg where he was talking about fast times. Why aren't there more sub-2:30 marathoners? Well, at some point it's a function of your mile-time. And at some point that's a function of 400m speed. And so forth. On LRC, most guys claim to have 20-27 200m speed, however it's easy to forget that there is a HUGE chunk of the population that will NEVER go sub-30 in the 200m, and a sizeable chunk that will never go sub-35. I'm one of those 30-second-plus 200m guys. I tried for 3 years in high school to go sub-6, and eventually ran 6:06 as a best. Years later, at age 27, I tried again. Now, after 4 years, at age 30, I finally ran sub-6 with a 5:57. In the 200m, my 'recent best' as I like to call it (since I'm pretty far removed from the spritely spring one has in high school) is 35.5. In high school I was a 32-second guy. Even though I'm a guy who's in the right range on the BMI scale, and weighs 152, what chance do I have of ever running a 5-minute mile? What chance DID I ever have? Pretty slim in both cases...and I'm far from the only guy like me out there. Even though every high school has a sub-5 guy, sub-5 is outside the physical range of a lot of the population.

I also can't bench for sh!t. I suspect that being higher-than-average at 1-rep-max lifting involves fast-twitch fibers, just like running fast does.

If I had to guess, I'd say that benching 300 lbs. is easier than running sub-5 for most men, even if they could train as long as they wanted for each.

elephino wrote:

Sally V wrote:

Yes, he used to be on all-time 1500 junior list.

US? Who is he? There have been only 6 US high schoolers in history who have run sub 4. Alan Webb had just turned 18 when he did it. How old was Jim Ryun? Maton? Verzbicas? Danielson? Liquori?

That's the list, right? Ruling Webb out because he was 18, it's gotta be one of those other 5. Anyone want to check their ages when they ran it?

Why aren't you telling us his name? It's pretty cool that you were buddies with one of those guys.

He was already in college at the time he was 17. He ran 3:42 as a freshman and never improved over that.

Not really.

It is true that many cannot hit 5:00. For this, 'Not Talented' has a CORRECT perspective.

However, as with so many who post here his perspective is remarkably biased by his own experience. It is simply INCORRECT that anyone can get up around 185-200 without nearly all of the extra weight coming in the form of pure fat. I have worked hard at adding muscle mass and my body simply will not get substantially past 155 (without steroids and without the extra mass being pure fat). I will never sniff 300 regardless of my efforts and many of the folks I know from XC are the same way.

5:00 is NOT achievable for MANY.

300 is NOT achievable for MANY.

Anyone saying otherwise is suffering from sample bias at best or is simply not very bright (possibly both).

Given the average height and weight of adult men in the US are 5'9" and 200lbs, I think more people have talent for 300lb bench than talent for 5 min mile.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/body-measurements.htm

U R Wrong wrote:

Sally V wrote:

I think almost any healthy male, under the guidance of a seasoned professional, can eventually achieve a 300-pound bench press. There are exceptions of course but given sufficient time (up to 5 years perhaps in some cases) they can eventually achieve that standard. I think there is a significant portion of males in that age range who would never be able to run a 5-minute mile even with professional coaching.

Pretty sure you are mistaken. I know lots of healthy 21 - 26 year-old males who have been seriously training for strength for several years who can't come close to 300. Conversely, I don't know many healthy males in that age range who have been seriously training for speed endurance who cannot go under 5:00.

I think your observations and mine are simply a matter of non-random sample bias.

I've known a lot more guys who broke 5 minutes than guys who benched 300. And I'm in that group as well.

If you look at most bench press videos the guys have huge chests with short arms and are lifting the bar less than a foot.

Someone with long arms is at a distinct disadvantage.

Opposite criteria applies to the mile. Upper body mass is a handicap.

In the US as a whole:

Few people can run a sub 5 mile.

Few people can bench 300.

Very, very few can do both.

stateroftheoblivious wrote:

If you look at most bench press videos the guys have huge chests with short arms and are lifting the bar less than a foot.

Someone with long arms is at a distinct disadvantage.

Opposite criteria applies to the mile. Upper body mass is a handicap.

In the US as a whole:

Few people can run a sub 5 mile.

Few people can bench 300.

Very, very few can do both.

You could say the same for guys breaking 5 for the mile.

They tend to have long legs, short torsos, and they tend to be very lean.

from my perspective

- some will find the running target easier

- some will find the lifting target easier

- some may be able to achieve both

My memory of high school was that there was always a small group of us at our school athletics day could an equivalent 1500m to a sub 5 minute mile.

At the same age there was no one in our high school who was anywhere near a 300 lb bench. Even this guy in our Rugby team - see link

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multimedia/archive/00920/6bd52dcc-0d49-11e5-_920621c.jpg

http://cdn.3news.co.nz/3news/AM/2015/6/8/dac190d7-22db-4b2d-a0f3-686e08369a84/Jerry_Collins3-1200.jpg?width=700

By the time I was at University (college) and we discovered girls and beer - none of my peer group could touch a 5 minute mile; though several of us could at this stage bench 300 lbs (though my memory is we did a lot of gym training and eating to get to this point.)

I have met women and even a high school girl who have broken 5 for a mile. I'm sure many of you have as well. I don't know too many many men that can bench 300 lbs let alone women. I have been a gym rat my entire life.

Like I said my swimmer friend had to work hard to bench 300 lbs (@210 lbs body weight). He ran a 5:07 time trial after two previous attempts and he was not a runner. When I say he was not a runner he did not run at all except for those two attempts.

Running sub 5 is easier. Take it from someone that has done both.

Just to add my anecdote to the thread:

I broke 5:00 after 2 years of 35-50 mpw.

5'8", and 140 lbs. 16 years old. Best bench press was 165 lbs.

I broke 300 lbs for the Bench Press after 3 years of dedicated strength training.

At the time, I was about 190 lbs, and 25 years old.

I'm of average proportions, in terms of limb length.

Running bests:

4:20 for the mile, 31:30 for 10k.

All around 130 lbs and 6 years of training.

Lifting bests:

550 squat

350 bench

600 deadlift

All around 215 lbs and 5 years of training.

My personal conclusion: they are both feats that are in the 99% of the population, and they require high specificity in training them to hit those marks.

An athlete that can do both concurrently, with proper form (bench to chest, pause then press) is VERY rare.

Also, since the training of both are counter productive to the other, this makes that "style" of training very odd, unless you are an olympic level decathlete (but they probably wouldn't do much bench pressing, instead favoring overhead or other pressing variants).

Walker Red wrote:

...

Running sub 5 is easier. Take it from someone that has done both.

Your non-random sample bias is blindingly obvious. If you have actually achieved both that's great. But completely irrelevant.

I have done both (345 bench, and 4:58 mile), but not in the same training block. However, I was probably capable of doing 300 bench at the time of the 4:58, because I was doing reps at 275.

The 300+ bench definitely took me much longer to achieve, 5 years of real weight training. I remember I was stuck at 295 for a while, then broke through to 315, then plateaued at 335 for a long time, during which I would do 315 with no spotter!

The 4:58 didn't take nearly that long to achieve, but did require lots of volume in a 6-month period, lots of "fast" 5k's, and 1- and 2-minute speedwork sessions.

So for me, the 300 bench was "harder".

So benching 300 was much more difficult? You spent more time to achieve the lift and you were in your prime (25) vs. breaking five as a 16 year old boy. Please confirm, but I bet you took dietary supplements in that three year period of strength training, whereas you didn't as a teenage runner.

Majority of people have no business doing behind the neck military presses. Heck most people have no business doing regular overhead press. Most people lack the mobility and stability needed to do so safely and effectively. Know who you are working with before you give such advice like that.

Pointing Out D REALLY Obvious wrote:

Walker Red wrote:

...

Running sub 5 is easier. Take it from someone that has done both.

Your non-random sample bias is blindingly obvious. If you have actually achieved both that's great. But completely irrelevant.

You chose to point out my concluding statement. Did you read my other points? Were they biased? Do you know a lot of women and teenagers that have benched 300 lbs or better?

I would say the 300 bench press was tougher, HOWEVER, I was also starting at "below average" weight and muscle mass.

If I was starting at a higher weight, then I would have achieved 300 quicker.

Also, regarding dietary supplements, I only used whey protein. As a runner, I used similar recovery methods (good macros after hard workouts).