RACISM/PREJUDICE AT GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY TRACK AND FIELD/XC

Certian wrote:

Letsrun is full of racists and closet racist. This is the last place that you should expect any sympathy.

If you don't acknowledge Black Privilege in the racist system that victimizes non-blacks and especially whites then you're a racist. You racists teach your racism in classrooms across the USA and then you don't own up to the consequences when your students act on it.

During his testimony Wednesday, Thandiwe suggested that his reason for even purchasing the gun he used in the shootings was to enforce beliefs he’d developed about white people during his later years as an anthropology major at the University of West Georgia.

“I was trying to prove a point that Europeans had colonized the world, and as a result of that, we see a lot of evil today,” he said. “In terms of slavery, it was something that needed to be answered for. I was trying to spread the message of making white people mend.”

He said the night before the shooting, he attended a so-called “Peace Party” intended to address his concerns about helping the black community find equal footing, but two white people were there.

There is one clearly legitimate and one other probably legitimate complaint in what she says. First, when athletes are injured, coaches need to know how to get them treated and back healthy. When they force them to run through injuries like this, they are doing everyone a disservice. They shouldn't be angry at the athlete, but rather at themselves for distrusting and harming an athlete who was trying her hardest. If she had shin splints, she could fix them quickly using the bass drum pedal exercise, moving her foot up and down with the heel on a step or the like. The coach cannot take a hands off approach to taking care of his or her athletes' health. When you ask athletes to increase mileage AND intensity dramatically at the same time, you are leading them to get injured. Nor should anyone be doing 16 mile long runs on 60 mpw, particularly not a high talent, low mileage frosh. You gradually step up their mileage and intensity over the course of a year or more, not all at once. On the second point, the coach is also at fault, if true, because if the runners on the team were making racist remarks, the coach needed to head that off, for instance, to assign a teammate to take care of her and speak up for her, knowing that with her background, she might not be readily accepted or comfortable with the other athletes. Once you have resentment from the coach's pressure on an injured athlete, then all kinds of things go wrong. On her side, she needs to get tougher and smarter, tougher about slights and increases in work, smarter about handling difficult personalities and overcoming injuries through injury prevention/treatment exercises.

Has anyone heard the school or coach's side of this?

It seems this is one sided and "woe is me.."

real al lity wrote:

At what point are even liberals going to start rolling their eyes when blacks throw down the race card?

Not that I am taking this young lady's side, but there is such a thing as racism, it exist in life and you would have to be a fool to think it does not exist in T&F and in NCAA athletics programs. Of course we don't personally experience it or even see it being the majority race. To some of us, Blacks are imagining things that don't exist, but it does and if you think it doesn't, you have a problem. I do think in some cases where Blacks see race as the issue or 'play the race card' per se, they are simply encountering a mean person who just happens to be White and that person is just as mean and unfair to White people as well. Schools like G' Town, Nova, ND and the Ivies, etc., are populated by upper middle class suburban White kids who are informed about Blacks from their parents, the nightly news and their experiences. Kids at these schools tend to only understand race as it exist for them. Generally, race has not posed any barriers to them and it is almost a non-issue. Black kids at these school are also informed by their experiences and they see being White as being powerful, rich and privileged, which is certainly not always the case. Most importantly, these Black kid's do experience incidences of true racism and as a result in some cases end up seeing things that don't go their way and when Whites are involved as race issue. Btw, a school like G' Town can be a little bit of a culture shock even for your average middle class White kid, and even they can sometimes feel like they don't fit in and see situations as the haves and have-nots. I attended grad school at an Ivy and was surprised to meet lots of 23 and 24 year olds who spent their spring break in Europe. Although I grew up poor; however, it was in an extremely diverse environment. I think spending your spring break in Europe is cool and that's somewhat the lifestyle I have been able to provide for my children, but I let them know they are privileged and that this is not how it is for everyone. Back to the main point, I know racism does exist, and I see how Black people can sometimes misinterpret an issue as being about race when it isn't, which could be the case with this young lady.

PoisonIvy wrote:

Based on the details given, I think I was on that team (middle of the road to lower end of the A-10). The throws coach was new and the thrower who stirred up all of the s*** was bitter that her old coach was let go from the staff. The kid showed up about once a week (usually late), didn't follow the training plans, and was eventually dismissed from the team by Thanksgiving.

If you are not willing to work within the system that your coaches put in place to help the team be successful, you need to find another coach with another system. Cut your losses and move on.

Yep, you got it.

I don't think the OP experienced racism. But if she's looking for racism, she came to the right place.

Why cut your losses and move on, when you can accuse somebody of discrimination, and in return, gain sympathy from the duped?

TrackCoach wrote:

real al lity wrote:

At what point are even liberals going to start rolling their eyes when blacks throw down the race card?

Blacks are imagining things that don't exist

I edited it for you. I had to wade through a lot of bullsh*t, but at least I found one kernel of truth in your post.

Whatever happened to the days of when a person makes their own choices, puts their nose to the grind stone, realizes their own limitations and accepts the results/consequences of their own doing? Even poor, rich, black, white etc... students-athletes in my time knew this and we never had chicken littles running around or adults that would put up with that behavior. It's only going to get worse as well when this type of person does take on leadership roles and behaves this way. so I don't believe it's just young people as some adults aren't reasonable or fair when supposedly educating future leaders as I've seen some pretty immature behavior from them as well. Sign of the times I'm afraid when we are constantly bombarded with examples of poor leadership at the top through media that is never held accountable. People just feel they can embellish, say whatever they want, twist the truth etc... because we live in a selfish society. In addition, fewer leaders have a backbone to stand up to this behavior because they fear the PC/victim supporting majority we've turned ourselves into. Our country is in serious decline because our leaders pander to whatever gets them the vote as long as they get what they want in the end. Bottom line, people just care less about what's best for everyone and enjoy the stagnation of wallering around in mediocrity.

In this particular case, better leadership by the coaching staff throughout the whole process of recruitment to graduation for this individual has been flawed. Obviously, the parents haven't done their job either. Successful programs with clearly defined expectations and constant communication between all parties involved just don't have these problems. So, there is a lot of blame to spread around here and getting back on the right track must start with better leadership regardless of the petty crap some of the coaches and athletes can come up with in their defense. Sounds like neither the staff of the athlete was cut out for their jobs.

My closest friend from high school went on to run for Georgetown under, who I'm assuming you're referring to, Coach Henner. When he arrived there, he held distance records for a lot of the biggest mid west meets, as well as state and regional records. All of these came in distance events and at the time he was deciding between Stanford and Georgetown. Finally, he fell in love with what he was shown at Georgetown and signed off to there. In high school he was fairly high mileage, running 80 miles a week and up to 16 miles in his long run. He was all over dyestat and propped to be the next star of distance running in college. Fast forward to his freshman/sophomore year, his mileage is bumped, his long run is 19-20 miles, he has stress fractures, he's frustrated that he's not the fastest guy in town anymore and his times plateau. Coach Henner tells him frequently that he's a disappointment, he needs to get his head straight, he'd call him at night and say how upset with how he was a flake. Now, the athlete was in the best shape of his life, but he came from a program in high school in which he was the only fast runner, he was best friends with his coach and he had his family there for him everywhere.

Coach Henner is not the loving, caring type that will be your best friend. Georgetown is not the place where an outstanding athlete can just go and be the best their freshman year.

The athlete I'm talking about wound up running slightly better than his high school times at Georgetown, finished his four years, stopped running permanently and now runs a bike shop, but here's the kicker. He's white. He's from an upper middle class town and has no trace of any minority race in his lineage.

So with this post coming from a black man, all I see is a disgruntled athlete who signed off on a coach who isn't the best with helping athletes mentally, but wants to blame it on everything but her own fault. Transfer, work on your mental game or leave the team. It's your choice. But you're not special, you don't have my sympathy and I am sick and tired of everybody calling racism in every situation because they're too weak to deal with their problems head on. Grow up.

I think that racism and prejudice are big problems at all campuses and just in society in general.

Being a minority distance runner can be kind of a strange experience. I think I first became aware of how my race changed the way people view me during recruiting.

When I was being recruited for college a lot of white coaches didn't know how to talk to me about race. They would often have minorities call me to talk about the minority experience. Gags was really up front about race. He would joke about it and speak directly about it. I preferred his directness to coaches that nervously informed me about programs for minorities.

Race was a factor at Georgetown in general. There was segregation at the school. If anything I was proud of the track team. The all white soccer teams and lacrosse teams were not places I would have felt safe. But the track team was more of melting pot than the rest of the school even if there were still some issues.

When I was at Georgetown, I went through a down period. Depressed period. I went from the guy that put in the big miles to starting runs and then just walking home. I wasn't training at all. When I told Coach Henner about it I was terrified how he would react. He let me go home a month early (before christmas break) and wrote me a modified training plan. Even that plan I didn't execute perfectly. When I got back from home I couldn't keep up in work outs for the first time ever. Coach Henner never made me feel guilty about not doing the work I agreed to do.

My first big 10k back, I didn't even finish the race. That was supposed to be my big qualifying attempt. I finally started getting back into shape and Coach Henner sent me to Mt. SAC. He took me aside and told me that I had earned a second chance because of all the hard work I had put in over the years. He chose to see me as a complete person and not just my latest performance. Budgeting those big trips is a real issue at a track and field program. He didn't have to do that and I have always been grateful for the dignity that I was treated with during a time I was ashamed and embarrassed.

Coach Henner is a good person.

Mike Smith is one of the most outstanding and caring people I've ever met.

If those are either of the two coaches she is talking about, it runs counter to everything that I ever experienced.

What is written in this "blog" is nothing but libelous drivel from the mouth of a lazy, privileged brat. Stef's work-ethic and attitude were never in line with that of the georgetown student-athlete. she routinely partied, got fat, and blamed her coaches for her shitty results. i have never met anyone more selfish in my entire life, and her accounts of racism are unfounded and absolute lies to make herself look like a victim. racism certainly exists in this country and this world, but it is certainly not harbored or welcome in the locker rooms at georgetown university.

I went to a school (30 years ago) of a very similar nature on scholarship.

We had the same problem in terms of attracting and keeping a sprint team. Of course, we cut our program down to 2 scholarships, so if the football team did not permit at least a few sprint with us, well, we were mostly a distance program. A new football coach my last two years permitted three football guys (two of whom made it to the NFL) to sprint, and it made for a better (but still mediocre) sprint team. Rojo's comments on this are spot on.

I am also an alum of Georgetown (graduate school) and found, like my undergraduate school, that in general they treated athletes fairly, and in fact, better than most schools. I cannot vouch for their current state of affairs but I would be surprised if they have changed. The education at both my schools was invaluable, and the hardest part for me was dealing with all of the wealthy people. But that was my cross to bear, not my classmates.

Look, I think there is a mature way to look at this. I am not surprised this young woman said she struggled with higher mileage in college. The list of those who do in college is long (me included - 4:08 mile in high school on 40 miles a week was one thing, 80 miles in college another). Being able to run miles without injury or constant drop dead fatigue (which makes for school and social life problems, too) is a talent on its own - and not a talent which is manifest until you actually get to college and do it. So without any judgment on her, she did not take to it well - hardly unusual - but no doubt disappointing to her (and injury likely led to weight gain too, which slows performance).

I wish her well, but somehow I don't think the race card will work out for her. She likely is a young lady with lots of talents - and should reflect on that.

old hoya wrote:The all white soccer teams and lacrosse teams were not places I would have felt safe.

Somehow I think you would have been much safer around those all white teams than you would have been had you ventured down to majority black Bellevue.

real al lity wrote:

At what point are even liberals going to start rolling their eyes when blacks throw down the race card?

So when should blacks use their race card? When the policeman's truncheon is on their larynx, or when the cop's bullet enters their back?

I'm not equating this situation to those, but you obviously consider yourself an expert on the plight of black Americans, so I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

Her mile PR in college is: 5:12.86.

The fact that the coaching staff allowed her to keep her scholarship after her dismissal actually makes Georgetown look like good guys in my eye.

If I was a big time D1 school I'd find a way to get that scholarship back.

h rap brown wrote:

real al lity wrote:

At what point are even liberals going to start rolling their eyes when blacks throw down the race card?

So when should blacks use their race card? When the policeman's truncheon is on their larynx, or when the cop's bullet enters their back?

When blacks can live together in large numbers and not cause a corresponding increase in crime, poverty, disease, and general societal destruction, THEN they can start using the race card.

I just meant to highlight the diversity of the track team.

My perception of those teams were just that- my perception. And they almost certainly weren't "All-White", I just remember them that way. For all I know they could have been the most welcoming and tolerant teams at the school. I would just look at them in the cafeteria and be grateful for the diversity of the track team.

old hoya wrote:

I just meant to highlight the diversity of the track team.

My perception of those teams were just that- my perception. And they almost certainly weren't "All-White", I just remember them that way. For all I know they could have been the most welcoming and tolerant teams at the school. I would just look at them in the cafeteria and be grateful for the diversity of the track team.

So, you're basically saying that the soccer and lacrosse teams were not all white, but you perceived them to be all white, and thus you would not have felt safe around them despite you having no reason to believe that the aforementioned teams would cause you any physical or emotional harm other than your perception?