Rekt
Rekt
Positive Contribution wrote:
RegSimpkins wrote:This is asthma. It is real and not something to be messed around with.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyydY5u-jTYNo one is denying that asthma is a joke. What's a joke is elite endurance athletes getting on meds for a condition that if they truly had they wouldn't be any near elite in the first place.
*isn't
Diski wrote:
As a physician, I see many active people with adult onset asthma. It is common and some researchers regard it to be close to an epidemic.
Whatever you say, "doctor". Try googling "adult onset asthma epidemic" with quotes, you get exactly zero results. Not many word combinations still get you zero results on the internet. "Childhood asthma epidemic" gets about 5700.
How do you know it's likely Cam Levins suffers the problem? Is he a patient of yours? Wouldn't someone who runs as fast as him, and was running fast before being treated for asthma, be less likely to have lung problems?
man this whole thing just really bums me out.
As someone who needs an inhaler for a very real asthma condition I couldn't me more angry with NOP and Salazar if these allegations are true, for casting shade on those of us who actually need one for medical reasons.
For those of you criticizing prescribed use of an inhaler, I would caution you not to hurt yourself climbing down from such a high horse. Particularly if you've ever taken iron supplements, multivitamins, advil, worn orthotic shoe inserts, kineseo tape, or had any kind of corrective surgery. I could go on.
Everyone deals with something at some point in their running career, whether it's chronic or acute.
Albuterholic wrote:
Diski wrote:As a physician, I see many active people with adult onset asthma. It is common and some researchers regard it to be close to an epidemic.
Whatever you say, "doctor". Try googling "adult onset asthma epidemic" with quotes, you get exactly zero results. Not many word combinations still get you zero results on the internet. "Childhood asthma epidemic" gets about 5700.
How do you know it's likely Cam Levins suffers the problem? Is he a patient of yours? Wouldn't someone who runs as fast as him, and was running fast before being treated for asthma, be less likely to have lung problems?
It is certainly possible to have asthma and be a fast runner. You just don't understand the issue. I remember watching Natasha Roetter drop out of a race with an attack. It was alarming to watch.
*stipe wrote:
But I loved Cam.... wrote:Wow that's an awful interview. You can actually watch when he flips the switch and starts lying. First it's the half truth: "Do you use thyroid or asthma medication" "No, I don't use thyroid medication" and then it just devolves into an uncomfortable gosh-I-don't-want-to-lie-so-I'll-just-bend-the-truth dialogue about his "asthma". As a guy who reads people for a living, he's not being honest in this interview once drugs are brought up. Does NOP not practice answering these types of questions???
^
100 % correct
Seems to me that he just realized halfway in -- OH SNAP, THESE ARE IMPORTANT QUESTIONS ABOUT SERIOUS STUFF, and changed his tone (appropriately). Probably made him nervous. I doubt he's had someone with a camera in his face ask him point blank about his medication before. I don't think that means he's lying.
Although even if he's being 100% honest, there's still the question of whether the asthma meds are legitimately needed or if he's just doing what it seems so many others are doing.
Positive Contribution wrote:
No one is denying that asthma is a joke. What's a joke is elite endurance athletes getting on meds for a condition that if they truly had they wouldn't be any near elite in the first place.
I think the point was, if Salazar's athletes are all a bunch of asthmatics, why don't we ever see them suffer for it like Gebrselassie did? How come we never see them hunched over in a coughing fit after an indoor race? Gebrselassie missed out on his best chance for a final Olympic gold because of asthma worries, but how come asthma only helps Nike Oregon Project athletes?
Well, there is this and many others:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4166213/
Albuterholic wrote:
Diski wrote:As a physician, I see many active people with adult onset asthma. It is common and some researchers regard it to be close to an epidemic.
Whatever you say, "doctor". Try googling "adult onset asthma epidemic" with quotes, you get exactly zero results. Not many word combinations still get you zero results on the internet. "Childhood asthma epidemic" gets about 5700.
How do you know it's likely Cam Levins suffers the problem? Is he a patient of yours? Wouldn't someone who runs as fast as him, and was running fast before being treated for asthma, be less likely to have lung problems?
Terry` wrote:
Albuterholic wrote:Whatever you say, "doctor". Try googling "adult onset asthma epidemic" with quotes, you get exactly zero results. Not many word combinations still get you zero results on the internet. "Childhood asthma epidemic" gets about 5700.
How do you know it's likely Cam Levins suffers the problem? Is he a patient of yours? Wouldn't someone who runs as fast as him, and was running fast before being treated for asthma, be less likely to have lung problems?
It is certainly possible to have asthma and be a fast runner. You just don't understand the issue. I remember watching Natasha Roetter drop out of a race with an attack. It was alarming to watch.
Thank you for proving my point. Did Natasha Roetter set a PR in that race that she dropped out of? No? Probably because she had an asthma attack and had to drop out.
I'm not sure where you read in my quote that asthmatics can't ever be fast runners. I did imply that it could be a handicap, such as when it forces you to drop out of a race. It's just surprising that the fastest group of runners in the country suffer this and other major running handicaps, like thyroid problems. You would expect them to be healthier than average.
[quote]Albuterholic wrote:
Whatever you say, "doctor". Try googling "adult onset asthma epidemic" with quotes, you get exactly zero results. quote]
This is silly, even by LRC standards. This is hardly the only relevant search term. If you use common sense, and look at other combinations of words, you get lots of hits. And in those articles, you find sentences like this: "However, the occurrence of new-onset asthma during adulthood is substantial...."
This may not meet the letter of the good doctor's claim, but it certainly seems consistent with the spirit of his claim, which was simply that there was more adult onset asthma than we might realize.
Moron, did you skip grade 1-6 or just forget how to read?
He said he had the issue *before* coming to Salazar.
It is a very dubious diagnosis in general (I known nothing of Cam Levine, obviously),
*stipe wrote:
But I loved Cam.... wrote:Wow that's an awful interview. You can actually watch when he flips the switch and starts lying. First it's the half truth: "Do you use thyroid or asthma medication" "No, I don't use thyroid medication" and then it just devolves into an uncomfortable gosh-I-don't-want-to-lie-so-I'll-just-bend-the-truth dialogue about his "asthma". As a guy who reads people for a living, he's not being honest in this interview once drugs are brought up. Does NOP not practice answering these types of questions???
^
100 % correct
^^
Poor Cam got stuck in a situation that was going to support all the claims and was doing everything he could to avoid telling the truth. You can see the switch when he trie to avoid admitting to being on Asthma meds and only response to the thyroid part of the question.
Albuterholic wrote:
It's just surprising that the fastest group of runners in the country suffer this and other major running handicaps, like thyroid problems. You would expect them to be healthier than average.
I'd love to know exactly how many elite runners are taking asthma or thyroid meds. So far, the focus has been on one group. Do we know how many TUEs are issued to runners each year, and for what? Or do we just have bits and pieces?
I'd have to believe that if other coaches thought thyroid and asthma meds were helpful, they'd start using them.
All you non-asthmatics STFU, puff on an inhaler and see if it helps your 10k time (it won't). Actually, some of you may improve due to placebo, so please compare fake inhaler with real inhaler.
We don't know if Cam is on a standard blue rescue inhaler which has immediate bronco dilatory effect, or red preventive anti-inflamatory steroid inhaler (Flovent, Pulmicort, Alvesco etc) which has no impact on bronchial flow, and can actually make it worse for 30-60 mins.
But wait, asthma meds are sterdoids, oooOOooo, steroids, big muscles. LOL. The inhaled dose is literally a 100-1000X less than what a body builder would take, and is absorbed through a different pathway that does not affect muscular development. Most modern asthma meds have high first pass removal by the kidneys so not much in the body anyway. Some asthma drugs (Alvesco) are pro-drugs that only switch on when in contact with epithelial cells, not muscle cells.
What's my cred? I developed adult onset asthma after 5 years of 60-70mpw at altitude/dry air. I can't imagine anyone doing Cam's mileage in Utah and not having lung problems. Bronco dilating Inhalers had no impact on my PB or finishing times wrt peers. And due to unpleasant side affects, I only take the rescue inhaler after a race if things are quickly getting worse.
fyi - By the time you've read this entire thread, someone probably died from asthma. in USA alone, 9 people day every day from asthma related issues.
Sponge wrote:
Well, there is this and many others:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4166213/
Do you have a better example? Because when talking about an epidemic in that article they are very careful to refer to a general asthma epidemic, not any disproportionate increase in the much less common adult onset version.
The "physicians" other claims are dubious as well. "It is very likely that Levins suffers from the problem, and it is also highly doubtful that any medical intervention related to it helped him set a Canadian 10k record." How does he know it's likely that Levins is telling the truth, and all the former NOP athletes and coaches are lying about the gamed asthma tests? And how is it doubtful that treating Levin's "condition", real or not, helped him set a record? Is he telling us that asthma medication isn't real, that's it all just a giant decades-long placebo experiment? Or is he saying that untreated asthma has no effect on running ability?
I think there are three basic follow-up questions someone should put to Levins:
Who first diagnosed your asthma?
What meds did that person put you on?
Have you changed asthma meds since joining NOP?
You could also get into things like what asthma meds he currently uses daily, what meds he uses only "as needed" and how frequently he tends to use the "as needed" stuff, but I think the three basic questions above are fair and simple and would make the situation significantly clearer.
Just try it ya wimps! wrote:
I can't imagine anyone doing Cam's mileage in Utah and not having lung problems. Bronco dilating Inhalers had no impact on my PB or finishing times wrt peers. And due to unpleasant side affects, I only take the rescue inhaler after a race if things are quickly getting worse.
Why did he get asthma after he left Utah and started running less mileage then?
Now I know why the east Africans are winning all the long distance races.
It is because we send the sickly athletes.
Imagine what happens when we send the healthy ones...
Now really...
Or maybe we should dope everybody so we can race against the Africans who have the advantage of altitude, no cars, no school buses, softer surfaces, cleaner air, no fast foods, better diets, more motivation because of poverty, run without shoes so their feet are stronger etc.
So lets take thyroxine, prednisolone, ventolin, l-carnitine and lets go running
Do not forget. The problem is not only with the few or many professional athletes. The real problem is with the amateur athletes that are already on medications like the above in order to compete in their races. That is why it is a bad idea to have people like the top runners discuss about those medications. They make the amateurs think that they need pharmacological help.
Let me go in my low pO2 room now...
Alex... wrote:
So lets take thyroxine, prednisolone, ventolin, l-carnitine and lets go running
I hear ventolin has some nasty side effects.