Mo Farah is one of the greats

Haile Gebreselassie was the GOAT during the EPO era.

Kenny Bekele was the GOAT during the CERA era.

Mo Farah is the GOAT now.

reader of the forums wrote:

The claim that someone who ran a 3:28 1500 and 2:08 marathon within 9 months isn't an all time great, when considering he is also a 2 time olympic gold medalist, 3 time world champion, and a world record holder, is absurd.

This depends a lot on what an all-time-great is.

3:28.81 is fantastic, no doubt. But still "only" Nr 6 (when achieved) on the all-time performers list. His highest position in any event he ever has had. Farah has done great things in the last few years - but still long way behind athletes like Nurmi, Zatopek, Gebrselassie, Bekele and also Coe and Aouita.

An all-time-great (on a strict basis) without any time close to an World Record? No way.

said88 wrote:

and a world record holder, is absurd.

[/quote]

...in the 2 Miles indoor...

Why havn't you mentioned this? How often has he tried to break the 3000m records? Indoors or outdoors. Or the 5000m. Or the 10000m. Never. What do you think why?

I don't think Geb feared the competition. But he also didn't race (95). I'm not talking about what he "might have done". Carl Lewis MIGHT have won the 100m in 1980 if the U.S. didnt boycott, and he MIGHT have won again in 1992 if he he'd run it as well. But he didn't.The fact that even an athlete as great as Geb didn't attempt the double highlights what a rare and difficult accomplishment it it.I didn't say KB is the greatest .... I said arguably the greatest. For what it's worth, with all Geb's greatness, I don't think he'd have beaten KB over 5 or 10 when they were both at their prime. But such things are speculative and subjective. It's like saying which is the best color.

Your first sentence is correct. We all get to define what that might mean, and we all get to define what "on a strict basis" might mean, as well.

Positing why Mo hasn't run for any of the WRs you list is no different to positing why Geb didn't run the double. Maybe those things don't matter to Mo as much as the championships do, and maybe the championships didn't matter to Geb as much as WRs did. Neither of us know those answers, so why approach the subject from that perspective?

Sounds like your qualifications for one of the greats is any one who has ever won a gold medal.

Why not just call them gold medalists then?

Double Olympic gold medalists (5/10 double):

Hannes Kolehmainen WR holder

Paavo Nurmi - WR holder

Emil Zátopek - WR holder

Vladimir Kuts - WR holder

Lasse Virénr - WR holder

Miruts Yifter

Kenenisa Bekele - WR holder

Mo Farah

There's something missing from Yifter and Farah's resume here.

Repeat Olympic Champions in 5 or 10:

Paavo Nurmi (10) - WR holder

Emil Zátopek (10) - WR holder

Lasse Virén (5 and 10) - WR holder

Gebrselassie (10) - WR holder

Bekele (10) - WR holder

Now forget world records for a second.

Farah only was a yearly world leader once - 2011. And never in the 10,000 for a single year.

The last 3 years he didn't have a world leading time in either event.

Would any of the greats have a streak like that?

Now 6 major medals in 3 years - 5 Golds and a Silver for Farah- that's pretty great.

I just think the "The Greats" win Championships AND run fast.

said88 wrote:

reader of the forums wrote:

and a world record holder, is absurd.

...in the 2 Miles indoor...

Why havn't you mentioned this?

I did. I said he had a world record.

said88 wrote:

How often has he tried to break the 3000m records? Indoors or outdoors. Or the 5000m. Or the 10000m. Never. What do you think why?

Why? Because Salazar cares about championships much more than times, and he micromanages his athletes with his interests above their interests.

Star wrote:

.

I just think the "The Greats" win Championships AND run fast.

So Paul Tergat and Daniel Komen aren't among "The Greats"?

Wtfunny wrote:

Positing why Mo hasn't run for any of the WRs you list is no different to positing why Geb didn't run the double. Maybe those things don't matter to Mo as much as the championships do, and maybe the championships didn't matter to Geb as much as WRs did. Neither of us know those answers, so why approach the subject from that perspective?

Maybe the Championships didn't matter to Geb as much as WRs? Please! Gebrselassie has won global titles in 8 different seasons (9 if you count junior competitions). They obviously meant a lot to him and he had unique success. (Yes, Bekeles achievements in the "title category" are even more impressive). If you are just talking about the championshp "doubles" then you are probably right. In 1995 and maybe also in 1997 the record probably was more important to him. (I don't know if the presence of Daniel Komen also has had an impact in Gebrselassie's decision to skip the World 5k in 97 again; he was not even selected).

I'm pretty sure that after his best years over 5000m he has little regret that he hasn't done the 5k/10k double again (after 1993). In 1996 the double was planned, but he couldn't compete after the 10000m because of his feet.

But still it's a totally diferent situation than Farah's in not doubling over 10k at the Olympics. Hopefully I have made my point clear before.

Farah hasn't tried to break the really important records for one simple reason: he knows he hasn't any chance.

I very well remember Dieter Baumann, who always claimed that records are not so important to him than titles (has won Silver and Gold at the Olympics and Gold at the Europeans; never close to any World Record). Than - in 1997 - when finally running sub 13 and also other great times, he spoke from his best year ever (5th in Athens). With a World Record, Baumann would have gone mad, I'm sure.

I'm pretty sure Farah would love to break an really important record. If he just could.

said88 wrote:

Farah hasn't tried to break the really important records for one simple reason: he knows he hasn't any chance.

This is not the case.

reader of the forums wrote:

I did. I said he had a world record.

You didn't get the point at all. Have you read my comment to which you have replied?

You asked for it wrote:

Star wrote:

.

I just think the "The Greats" win Championships AND run fast.

So Paul Tergat and Daniel Komen aren't among "The Greats"?

Komen had a pretty short career.

But he was a world champion AND a world record holder.

Tergat was a world record holder and won numerous XC world titles.

He won half marathon titles.

And winning major marathons as often as he did maybe more impressive than winning the Olympic marathon.

Henry Rono would be a better example of questioning my statement.

Plenty of records but no world titles.

But a boycott hurt his championship chances.

Nothing prevented Farah from trying to run fast.

I hope Farah puts up a great time tonight.

Get into the 26:30's.

reader of the forums wrote:

said88 wrote:

...in the 2 Miles indoor...

Why havn't you mentioned this?

I did. I said he had a world record.

There is NO INDOOR 2-MILE WORLD RECORD. Nor outdoor either for that matter. For the very sensible reason that it is a NICHE EVENT, and the top performance is nowhere near the level of records in standard events.

There are several runners active today who would have run a faster 2 mile than Mo's "world record" if they had not been busy COMPETING at REAL events like the 3000. Choge and Alamirew for example have run faster equivalent 3000's. In races, not time trials set up just for them.

There are quite a few past runners who would have gone well under 7:30 on today's bouncy indoor tracks. The number of astonishing performances, particularly by athletes who get NOWHERE NEAR the same level outdoors - Dibaba and Rupp in particular - shows it's high time to disregard those performances like wind-aided sprints. They should not be legal.

If Mo wants a world record, he has to attempt it at an event that other people run. On a track without a trampoline under it.

said88 wrote:

reader of the forums wrote:

I did. I said he had a world record.

You didn't get the point at all. Have you read my comment to which you have replied?

No, I didn't read it. I just type responses to posts I haven't read.

Like the one I'm responding to now. If it seems like I've read the post I'm responding to, it's pure coincidence.

Bad Wigins wrote:

The number of astonishing performances, particularly by athletes who get NOWHERE NEAR the same level outdoors - Dibaba and Rupp in particular - shows it's high time to disregard those performances like wind-aided sprints. They should not be legal.

Why shouldn't they be legal?

reader of the forums wrote:

No, I didn't read it. I just type responses to posts I haven't read.

This explains a lot. Thanks for clarification.

Star wrote:

You asked for it wrote:

So Paul Tergat and Daniel Komen aren't among "The Greats"?

Komen had a pretty short career.

But he was a world champion AND a world record holder.

Tergat was a world record holder and won numerous XC world titles.

He won half marathon titles.

And winning major marathons as often as he did maybe more impressive than winning the Olympic marathon.

Henry Rono would be a better example of questioning my statement.

Plenty of records but no world titles.

But a boycott hurt his championship chances.

Nothing prevented Farah from trying to run fast.

I hope Farah puts up a great time tonight.

Get into the 26:30's.

Give me a break. Winning World XC is the championship equivalent of Farah's indoor 2 mile. Championships needs to mean Olympics; at the very least the WC on the track.

Also excluded from your definition we could add Samuel Wanjiru, history's 32d fastest marathoner.

You seem confused about the meaning of the "A" and the "T" in GOAT.

said88 wrote:

How often has he tried to break the 3000m records? Indoors or outdoors. Or the 5000m. Or the 10000m. Never. What do you think why?

He isn't fast enough.