Thoughts on Cheserek and Jenkins flying to Stanford and taking 2 spots only to jog

Calm down. You think that not racing hard on every outing is bad for the sport. That is your opinion.

I think your opinion is wrong.

actually curious wrote:

cbenson4 wrote:

i just wanted to see a good race from them, seeing as how Flotrack hyped it up and all that. i was just disappointed.

I'm curious what would have satisfied you? Given that indoors were what 3 weeks prior, did you really think they would hammer a 10k at this kind of meet?

The year before didn't they basically run a qualifier (though faster , I remember 28:30ish but i might be mistaken). Odds are they would have done that this time but were probably asked, or volunteered to help pace their teammates to help them qualify, as one guy set a PR he might not have been able to go much faster than what they ran.

Makes sense

That was hardly a time trial wrote:

Qualifier for what?

I don't know if this is a bad rhetorical question or if you actually don't know it is a qualifier for regionals. Either way it's not helping your point.

doo doo wrote:

That was hardly a time trial wrote:

Qualifier for what?

I don't know if this is a bad rhetorical question or if you actually don't know it is a qualifier for regionals. Either way it's not helping your point.

The regional and national meets are shite and are not worth anything.

rojo wrote:

Why would anyone be bothered by it?

The meet is the equivalent of a heat at USAs. No one gets upset when people don't go all out in a heat. You simply do what you need to do to qualify.

The outrage actually though is interesting. It to me shows why track and field isn't more popular. ONe of the inherent things about the sport - that most people don't really seem to get - is most meets are nothing more than exhibitions/practice.

Jenkins and Cheserek aren't really racing. THey are practicing. Yes in most meets, people are racing all out but really the results are almost 100% totally insignificant until you get to a championship say NCAAs, USA, Worlds.

Pre-season football isn't real popular. Nor is pre-season track.

Dude get real, the "outrage" is just some idiot on this board and some copycat sucker sapiens having you on.

There's plenty of heats at Stanford, I seriously doubt any athletes were put out.

I hate to agree with "A Duck" on here but he is right,

Oregon actually the college system, which folks complain about being over raced is actually the opposite

The really really good guys only see each other once or twice, if they even go to Penn and stick it in there and run big.

The issue is this.

You go NCAA Indoor Nats on or about 3/10

Then some go to Penn , this year 4/23, Arkansas which was a monster program went every year when they were good.

Where is the next block of training going to occur? Never actually

Only the top of the top can race effectively off the way that it is.

Oregon actually manages this pretty well, but they have a lot of bodies to pick up the damage

Look at Ches he runs 3-4 XC races, then runs a mile Q'er and a 3K in indoors and 3 races in like 60 hours at NC indoor Nats...why shouldn't he get a break for outdoors/, I hope they go to Penn and run epic races agisnt Gtwown and Nova

That is the sport today, not Drake or some sort of other horse sh it meet

People run the meet to get marks. No reason Cheserek and Jenkins can't do the same.

Stanford booers, it seems there is an attitude there about Oregon. I dunno, maybe it's just me, I have a lots of friends who went to Stanford (not runners). They are elitist peckerwoods, I love 'em still, but they gots an attitude.

Wow, another idiotic bunch of statements from a host of posters:

Idiot

What exactly is the problem?

To entertain the spectators who were paying to watch the races.

Reality

The Spurs and Warriors in the NBA sometimes rest their players, for regular season games that are much more expensive to attend. The 82-game NBA season is a pretty close analogy to what is required to run multiple 1500's, 5000's, and 10,000's in the same season(s). In the case of Jenkins and Cheseret, they'll be running these events several times in the same MEET (indoor NCAAs, outdoor conference, outdoor regionals, outdoor NCAAs). Maybe you can write angry letters to Andy Powell like fans do to Steve Kerr and Popovich.

Idiot

Almost every sport NCAA dominates turns to dust. Only football really thrives professionally.

Reality

Yep, NCAA has destroyed basketball (Final Four is just losing money by the millions, and the average NBA franchise isn't worth about $1 billion), hockey, and baseball. Certainly has destroyed professional distance running in the USA, which has been abysmal for deca- Oh wait.

Idiot

they could have easily just gone to a local meet and done the same thing. 29:00 is basically a tempo run for those two.

Reality

Didn't they work with teammates in the race? Was 29:00 a tempo for THEM? Are environmental conditions a factor in why gads of people travel to Palo Alto to get time qualifiers... and NOT Eugene? Is Palo Alto really that far from Eugene? No, these mere trivial pieces of information are not to be considered.

Idiot

The outrage actually though is interesting. It to me shows why track and field isn't more popular. ONe of the inherent things about the sport - that most people don't really seem to get - is most meets are nothing more than exhibitions/practice.

Reality

In another article, Rojo offers more insight into why track isn't popular, saying that track should be more like boxing, with athletes verbally sparring with each other. But top boxers only fight like once a year, if that. When track athletes don't compete, Rojo and everyone else whines. And regarding exhibitions/practice making up a big percentage of events, this is true of most sports, especially for the top teams. The playoffs matter a lot more for top NFL and NBA teams. Likewise, the conference and NCAAs matter a lot more for top NCAA runners.

Idiot

However, I disagree that this is an inherent part of the sport. We have created this system where the only thing that "matters" is nationals and major championships.

Reality

Conference meets matter, big non-championship events matter. Where did Solinsky run his 26:59? Where did top teams like Michigan and Tennessee run amazing relays? Where did Webb run his 3:53? All of those must have occurred at nationals and major championships and conference champs, right? Nope. One happened at a glorified time trial, the other at Penn Relays, the other at Pre, which are each great examples of high level competition that people following the sport really care about. You're just whining about one event, and expanding your complaint to attempt to encompass the entire sport.

Idiot

I think fan interest would increase and more athletes/coaches would prosper in a national for-profit league with domestic only competitors.

Reality

US distance running quality is at an all-time high, across the board, with minor dips for a few years, here and there. Your recommendation is incredibly backward and insular. Name me a for-profit league in the world that is domestic-only that is currently drawing big fans AND producing big-time results. Premier League? Cricket League? I'm mentioning these somewhat "foreign" leagues because it would be absurd to call any of the US for-profit leagues "domestic-only". But hey, one league comes to mind: the Cuban baseball system. It has achieved, through its unique form of government and punitive system, the insularity you desire. And you know what the top players in that system do? Pay big money and risk their lives to be trafficked out of the country by coyotes to get to the MLB where they can achieve their market value.

Your drive for a "domestic" league shows not how in touch you are, but how out of touch you are with the US fan base.

Idiot

I do think we have a problem in that our "regular season" is just championship meets and everything else doesn't seem to matter... ... As much as I love NCAA cross championships, the rest of the season is a joke. Half the teams 'tempo' most of their meets, athletes are regularly held out of the few meets that a team 'races' and so it all comes down to one day. That day is awesome, don't get me wrong, but there is no need to pay much attention before then.

Reality

Almost every meet these top guys will run will matter (at least for time and/or competitiveness)... except getting the regionals qualifier in the 10000. They are rare exceptions in some cases, because they are super fast. Should Floyd Mayweather and Pacquiao have to fight a bunch of chumps leading up to their fight? No! Because they have the credentials to just fight. I'm not saying track should look to the sport of boxing for advice on how to succeed as a sport, but c'mon.

Sure, football and basketball have numeral-based standings: Wins v Losses. But, I'm sorry, track and field, with javelin, 100m, 5000m and long jump, doesn't quite fit the format of the NBA, does it? And, when the NFL comes down to the super bowl, does week 2, when Brady's line was injured and he lost to the Chiefs (or whatever), really matter, either?

I'm not saying track shouldn't try and build a fan base, or that it doesn't have problems, but these arguments suck.

Idiot

People who pull crap like the 10000 don't deserve to be out there.

Reality

Cool plan! We should make you commissioner and you could ban Cheserek and Jenkins for pulling that crap. Then we could let the real runners, who run with some balls, duke it out. Actually, I hear Athletics Kenya might be hiring. Might be a good fit with someone of your disposition.

Idiot

I was there and I actually booed them. It was completely embarrassing and they should not have been there. Until the competitive nature of this sport returns, NOBODY will care.

Reality

Seems like you care. So, you are actually being a fan(atic). Fans acting like you are what people like Rojo claim we should have in the sport. We should have rivalries, hatred, intensity, disgust. Go root for your coach who drives his guys to run balls out every 10k, we need fans like you.

Idiot

I DO have a problem when the top 2 run like little douches practically holding hands to the finish line. I'm not asking them to hammer the whole race, but at least run an honest final lap.

Reality

I am disappointed that comments such as this are not moderated off the boards, but since it's here... Have you ever considered that it's not Edward Cheserek's job to get your rocks off? That maybe individuals outside yourself have other motivations and long-term plans, separate from what you desire of them in the moment? Sorry, but history suggests you'll see these two little douches practically holding hands to the finish line again this season, and probably in a more high profile setting.

Great post, bud. Just want to let you know that I didn't read it because it's way too long. Again though, great post!

1) they were not jogging. More like a tempo run, but they needed a qualifier so they had to do it in a "race".

2) they earned there entry, it's up to them and their coach what to do with it

3) anyone who did not make it because Ches and Jenkins ran was just not good enough in the first place. No matter what those "29 minute" guys would love to do it irrelevant. Entries go to the fastest guys. Period. End of story. There's no whining and crying allowed in running. If they, or anyone else, wants to whine they need to take the diapers off, grow up, get some balls and train harder so they EARN their entry.

I can't believe people are this worked up over two runners. Honestly, who gives a sh*t? These guys are the fastest two in the country and they have earned the right to travel where they want and get the qualifier however they want.

We are bitching about the lesser guys not having a chance to get a qualifier. News flash: this is sports, its about the championship.

"How about fans who paid to attend the meet? I know several who were upset. BTW, they told me they'd never heard such booing and heckling at a track meet. This is exactly why the sport isn't more popular. Fans see that the two big distance stars of Oregon are schedule to "compete", they fight Friday holiday traffic to get to the meet, pay their entrance fee, and then witness them doing a workout. "

Who gives a crap. Everyone with a brain knows if Ches and Jenkins are coming to Stanford in April they are NOT racing. Really, you thought they were. Then you are too stupid to be a fan of the sport.

They just finished indoors. They have two more months to go to the the actual important meets. NO ONE races for 4 months. You finish indoor. You take a step back and prepare for real outdoor season. Anything you do in March and early April is solely to prepare for late May and early June (or for some of these guys into July).

The casual fan will never care about the 10k...or even the 5k. Those who do should learn about the sport. Chance are, if you are a fan who would pay money to go to Stanford and watch a 10k, you are actually in the sport yourself. If you are in the sport then you owe it to yourself to educate yourself about the sport. About training, about racing, about hitting your peak at the right time, about what would help and what would hinder you being at your best at the NCAA championships (or whatever you are targeting).

If you did this, you'd understand that what Ches and Jenkins did was smart, and if you were a fan of theirs you'd actually applaud it instead of boo it.

If you havent run fast times before or earned an ncaa championship, this could ruin your shot at getting a contract out of college. One runner who comes to mind that this happened to is John Kosgei of Oklahoma State a few years ago. Never went all out at meets like Stanford in the 10k and only jogged to a qualifier. He was hugely talented with massive potential, but getting second to Chelanga at NCAA's in track won't get you much. Nobody knows who he is anymore though.

These guys are the biggest ncaa talents in several years and are truly going to be remembered as legends. The impact this will have on their careers will be negligible given Ches has ncaa titles and Jenkins ran 7:47. Furthermore, this will also have a positive impact on their team as they helped some teammates get a pb and a qualifier.

The answer to your problem is some sort of institutional regulations that incentivize good performances, but I don't know that it would actually do much good.

The real solution a lot of people don't like imagining would be to get rid of the NCAA and offer prize money to these semi-pro competitors. This would help create the right incentives to athletes in all ncaa sports and also would help create the right incentives for students attending universities to devote their time to school.

They were pacing teammates. What's the problem?

The Donger wrote:

They were pacing teammates. What's the problem?

I agree. As I put on the last page, here is what the Oregon, pre-meet, press release said "Oregon's 10,000-meter runners will be in action at the Stanford Invitational, Friday, looking to position themselves in NCAA Regionals qualifying position."

There were four runners that worked together to meet that goal. One of them even ran a PR.

I guess nobody remembers Jenkins running 13:15 at Payton Jordan in 2013. As long as training goes well and those two or healthy, I would be shocked if we don't see a fast 5K from these two (sub 13:05-fast) before Pac 12s.