John MF Trautmann!! 4:12.33 at age 46!! Sick.

I just finished chatting with him. His splits today were roughly 64-2:06-3:09-4:12. I told him some of you mentioned 4 minutes. To say the least he wasn't very optimistic about that. Next up is an 800 at the Armory Thursday night.

You certainly are typical, in that you like to post unsupported accusations about runners far superior to you, and you have remarkable difficulty with spelling.

typical lestrunner wrote:

It sure is amazing what one can accomplish with modern pharmaceutical$, right bros?

socal cush wrote:

sp2 wrote:

He dropped ten seconds in the last freaking YEAR. The first year he's trained really seriously.

Yeah, 12 seconds is obviously a long way to go, but, after what he did today, you can't tell me the thought hasn't probably crossed his mind.

I don't think it's inconceivable.

It'd be a hell of a lot of fun to watch; I'll say that.

this is NOT the first year he's trained seriously--the dude's an olympian and already has broken 4 minutes.

but i get your meaning, and don't get me wrong, i look forward to seeing what else he can do. that said, because he HAS broken 4, he knows what it takes, so i'd be surprised if it's crossed his mind at 46. pretty amazing what he's done, though, and since we're just speculating, i'm willing to admit i could be wrong here...

Obviously, I meant the first year he's trained seriously in his *second* career --his middle-aged comeback-- which is to say, the first year he's trained seriously in about the last twenty.

socal cush wrote:

Aphenomenal1 wrote:

He's ridiculously talented, and has the added benefit of having fresh legs - which is what most of the master's outliers have. If he had been training seriously and racing and had out on another 75K miles on those legs over the years, he would not be running 4:12 and eyeing sub-4 at 46.

first off, trautmann is unbelievably talented and tough. that's what makes him a "masters outlier," not "fresh legs." tony young, who posts above, and any other "masters outlier" i know would never credit "fresh legs"--just sayin'.

secondly, i don't think trautmann is eyeing sub-4--especially when he knows a 1:58 800 is going to be a challenge, although i think he'll hit this mark easily. 12 seconds, on the other hand, is another universe away...

my advice to john: find some outdoor meets asap! get after 'em while the gettin' is good...

I already stated that he was 'ridiculously talented.' His spate of injuries when he was younger curtailed him, but he also has "fresh legs" which is the benefit of not running tens of thousands of miles over the years. This allows him to shine a little more than his peers, making him more of an 'outlier.' Other examples, Magill, Pilcher - both took lengthy breaks from training in their 20s and/or 30s. This point is obvious to me. Trautmann would still be very good, but he would also be pretty fried if he trained and raced throughout those years. I can think of many examples of masters-plus runners who were awesome studs back in their day, did not take time off and kept at the circuit for many, many years, and their "well is dry." You can agree to disagree.

Ohhh he is from New York. And he is clean? Good one.

APhenomenal1 wrote:

I already stated that he was 'ridiculously talented.' His spate of injuries when he was younger curtailed him, but he also has "fresh legs" which is the benefit of not running tens of thousands of miles over the years. This allows him to shine a little more than his peers, making him more of an 'outlier.' Other examples, Magill, Pilcher - both took lengthy breaks from training in their 20s and/or 30s. This point is obvious to me. Trautmann would still be very good, but he would also be pretty fried if he trained and raced throughout those years. I can think of many examples of masters-plus runners who were awesome studs back in their day, did not take time off and kept at the circuit for many, many years, and their "well is dry." You can agree to disagree.

fair enough. i never put much stock on the "limited mileage" on our legs theory, especially since there are so many other reasons why our legs give out or the "well dries up" post-40. for me, it always seems to come down to the fact that in too many ways we're test subjects of one--for every magill (who may not have fried his legs, but fried his lungs in his 30s) and pilcher, you have a tony young or me who never completely let up (though my 30s were less competitive). don't know hinton's story, or barton's, or whiteman's, in terms of their 30s--but i'll agree to disagree.

either way, i'll reiterate my admiration for trautmann, and i think it's cool that this thread was started by one of the site's founders...

anthony kept running at a relatively high (golden league) level for many years, but certainly didn't run the same in his mid and late thirties, so there's that. not sure how much that saved his legs, but he's just got the mindset that, if he's going to do it, he'll damn well go out and do it. and that's exactly what he did.

UmmWTF? wrote:

Umwhat..... wrote:

Masters career??

Is the concept of a masters running career beyond your intellectual grasp?

Is the concept that this wasn't a career move or a transition from a pro to masters runner beyond your intellectual grasp? This is a star runner who gave up running and picked it back up to get in shape. I'd hardly call that a masters career...if he sticks with it for several more years then sure.

FYI you are a major f'tard.

4:12 at age 46! that´s a blow of a hammer. congratulations. i am sure he will continue to improve. the mercy of genes and hard work.

what i like most: masters athletics arouses attention.

lagat, anselm lebourne, trautmann, shabunin - currently there are some masters pushing the limits, showing us that an end of the career at age 30 on the basis that it´s hard to keep up the niveau is somehow a bounded viewpoint. many joyful years await. trautmann is a world record holder. who can say this.

Let the frat boy talk begin wrote:

Sick?

Was it also insane?

Did he just throw down this time, or did he also manage to take down some people?

It's official, greatest mile ever run.

FormerTeammate wrote:

Below is Fish messaged me on Facebook earlier this week regarding other events.

Going to run 800 next week. I think 1:58 maybe. I would love to get under 15 in the 5000m. I gotta back my boy Centro in the mile although Willis looked great last week. I agree with your top 3. Ches will get a lot of NCAa records in the next few years.

I also asked him about some his workouts and this is what he's done recently.

Once a week tempo (2x2mile in 10 min or 3-4 miles at 5:10-5:15). Speed (800 in 2:00, 600 in 1:29, 400 in 57. 6-8 min rest). Earlier in winter 8-10 x 800m in 2:20-2:25 with1-2 min rest.

I think the 3K record in within reach (8:26.xx). The 4:12 converts to about 8:18.

I agree with Socal cush that 4:00 is probably a stretch - John really is not a miler at heart, PR only 3:58 in his prime, getting older/losing leg speed, bad toe, etc. I could see him getting down to around 4:06-4:08 range. What really shocks me, however, is that his goal for his 1st 5K is only to break 15. That was his better distance historically, and based on where he is now, he should be able to absolutely crush the 5K with perhaps a little training modification, if that's even necessary. I believe he could break 14 now, and probably could get it down to 13:40 pretty soon. Regardless, this is all very exciting to me (I'm 49) - just as exciting as watching the top open pros - and I can't wait to see what he does next.

FormerTeammate wrote:

I just finished chatting with him. His splits today were roughly 64-2:06-3:09-4:12. I told him some of you mentioned 4 minutes. To say the least he wasn't very optimistic about that. Next up is an 800 at the Armory Thursday night.

Would you, or any other Hoya, kindly comment on John's relationships with his team mates and, especially, Coach Gagliano.

Thank you.

Those 5K times I predicted may be a bit aggressive, but I do think he could hit 14:20-30 now and sub 14 ultimately.

Give the guy a break, 4:12 = 14:24. Sub-14 is a worthy long-term goal for a 5000 specialist.

Badder Than Ghengis wrote:

Give the guy a break, 4:12 = 14:24. Sub-14 is a worthy long-term goal for a 5000 specialist.

Exactly! If he can run 4:12 now (indoors, mind you), he should be able to run BETTER THAN 14:24 NOW if the 5K is his better event. Sub 14 would be a great outdoor goal for John.

Lifetime PRs:

3:58/13:20.

13:20 converts to 3:52

based on this,

3:58/4:12i ==> 3:52/4:05.5i.

4:05.5i = 14:07i. So he should already be knocking on the door of 14:00 outdoors.

GOML wrote:

What's the big deal? The outdoor WR for M45 1500 is 3:48.53, a decidedly superior time.

It's a great run for somebody his age, but not unheralded.

The big deal is that people know who he is and and have followed him for years.

They know about his injuries and all of years away from running and of his talent.

So it's a nice story for those that know him.

And it's fast regardless.

Awesome running once you go past 45 the wheels normally fall off but he is motoring!

rojo wrote:

FYI, Trautmann's time bettered the WR for a U-50 and age 46 athlete. American Brad Barton held the mark at 4:16.83 from 2013.

It's also better than the 1500 record's equivalent of 3:57.91 (Tony Young).

His indoor mark is also better than the age 46 and U-50 outdoor WR of 4:16.09 by Tony Young (United States 12.04.62).

Tratumann does have some if he's going go get the outdoor 1500 mark. Spain's Jesus Borrego holds that at 3:52.43.,

Let's stop comparing indoor times to the outdoor times. If you know how a track is measured, you know that the closer you can run to the rail the more meters you cut off with 8 laps as opposed to 4 (in the case of a mile/1500).

Also, indoor tracks are devoid of wind and now typically have banked turns. No outdoor tracks have this. Rupp is a good example of how indoor tracks are super fast: mature athlete, been running for over 10 years ...

indoor 1500 - 3:34.78+(split) - outdoor 1500m - 3:34.15

indoor mile - 3:50.92 - outdoor mile - 3:52.11

indoor 3000m - 7:30.16 - outdoor 3k - 7:43.24

indoor 5000m - 13:01.26 - outdoor 5k - 12:58.90

I think what you were trying to say in the last sentence is:

"Trautmann does have some WORK TO DO if he's going to get the outdoor 1500 mark. Spain's Jesus Borrego holds that at 3:52.43."

But you are wrong. 3:52.43 is equivalent to 4:11.00 for the Mile.

Not trying to be a jerk to you ... but that is a pretty well-known conversion? As in we all knew in HS that a 4:10 1500 (common) was equal to a 4:30.0 mile and 4:28.+ 1600m.

Just remember that 3:42.2 = 4:00.0y ... or an 18 second differential at that speed.