Deflategate Question....Temperature changes??

I thought you were smarter than that. I apologize, I tend to overestimate certain individuals at times.

Looks like I did it again.

I won't bother explaining the obvious.

I just wish everyone "cheated" like the Pats but in running, it would give me a better chance at catching up to them.

as it was posted earlier "Time to cut out the BS. This has been blown so out of proportion.

Earlier in the season, Minnesota and Carolina were caught illegally heating up the footballs.

http://espn.go.com/blog/minnes...rs-vikings

I bet that you didn't know this because no one cared. The media didn't go into an uproar. The league just issued warnings."

Just let it go !

I'm sorry, but you're going to have to do better than some secondhand source if you want that information to be considered credible. You'll also need to provide pre-game pressure measurements of the Colts' balls before you can conclude they weren't deflated. Even a 6th grader knows that.

Neanderthal dream is mathematically circumventing you guys. Probably why you've resulted to name calling and source flaming.

-unbiased observer who understands math

mathsman wrote:

Neanderthal dream is mathematically circumventing you guys. Probably why you've resulted to name calling and source flaming.

-unbiased observer who understands math

It would appear to the knowledgeable eye that neanderthal dream has been schooled.

Hmm...you must be missing something

https://www.facebook.com/PathfinderRegionalVocationalTechnicalHighSchool?pnref=story

check this experiment out

They're starting to walk this thing back. The latest is that the balls were under inflated by half as much as reported earlier.

mathsman wrote:

Neanderthal dream is mathematically circumventing you guys. Probably why you've resulted to name calling and source flaming.

-unbiased observer who understands math

This thread has opened my eyes to the level of denial some people will go to. I really didn't want to go to Van der Waals. I really didn't. My hand was forced.

Speaking of denial, you and your alter ego need to take a look in the mirror. Everything I've posted is scientific fact known to 6th graders.

neanderthal dream wrote:

This thread has opened my eyes to the level of denial some people will go to. I really didn't want to go to Van der Waals. I really didn't. My hand was forced.

You display your ignorance by referencing Van Der Waals. With that comment you wave the proverbial white flag.

That 6th grader knows more science than you.

Chemical Ali wrote:

You display your ignorance by referencing Van Der Waals. With that comment you wave the proverbial white flag.

That 6th grader knows more science than you.

Haha, okay now this is getting sad. Feel free to post your refutation of van der Waals' equation if you want to continue the discussion.

6th grade scientist made a good point by bringing up the expansion of leather, but this point is weakened both by the fact he thought footballs still contained pig bladders, and by reports that the Colts' footballs measured accurately. More than likely, the modern polyurethane bladders expand to fill their container (the leather), and provide walls rigid enough to resist volume change at pressures as low as 10-12 psi.

Until the NFL releases an official report that offers better data, the science I've referenced is sound and my calculations accurate. If you have anything new to contribute, I'd love to continue the discussion, but otherwise I've said all there is to say.

You are mistaken that I thought pig bladders were involved. I never said that. And to my understanding there have been no firsthand reports of the measurements of any of the balls used in the game.

The science is really quite simple no matter what equation you wish to use. As the temperature drops, the pressure, volume, or both must drop. Since the volume increased due to the expansion of the wet leather, the only option is that the pressure decreased. This is 6th grade science.

neanderthal dream wrote:

Until the NFL releases an official report that offers better data, the science I've referenced is sound and my calculations accurate. If you have anything new to contribute, I'd love to continue the discussion, but otherwise I've said all there is to say.

Here is why Neanderthal never took me up on my bet for one year's salary:

Real scientist are confirming that the Patriots didn't cheat.

How would leather absorbing water increase the volume of air inside the ball? That doesn't make sense to me. Can someone explain?

Sports Science tested this years ago - 70 to 10 degrees resulted in a 2.5psi drop. There are many other reasons how it could have dropped 2psi in the current scenario. This whole thing is just a whole lot of hot air.

Sahyens wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59PEmRIMTo0#t=102

Sports Science tested this years ago - 70 to 10 degrees resulted in a 2.5psi drop. There are many other reasons how it could have dropped 2psi in the current scenario. This whole thing is just a whole lot of hot air.

Sure it is. But, all the pundits and flamers who called Brady's integrity into question and talked of banning Belicheck from the SB will never admit they were wrong.

Even folks on this thread had shrunk away into their corners once they realized that science showed that the Patriots didn't cheat.

Still, it won't change the way these ass-clowns remember history.

need an explanation wrote:

How would leather absorbing water increase the volume of air inside the ball? That doesn't make sense to me. Can someone explain?

Leather expands as it absorbs water.

Leather expands as it absorbs water.[/quote]

So?

Imagine you have a hollow ball that is made out of dried out sponge material. You submerge the ball in water allowing the sponge to soak up the water. It feels bigger in your hands, sure, but what makes you assume the volume of air inside the center has increased? The sponge material is fatter, but that doesn't tell us anything about the core of the ball. If anything, it seems like the sponge will have expanded in both directions, both into and away from the core of the ball. Seems like the volume of air inside should actually be less.

This is what I'm not getting about the leather.

Nevermind. I think a better analogy is a hollow piece of pasta like rigatoni. Measure the hole when the pasta is dry, then measure it again when the pasta is fully cooked with water absorbed. Yeah, I think the interior volume will increase. OK, I'm good.

neanderthal dream wrote:

Check the math if you like.

PV = nRT

V, n and R are constant

so P1/T1 = P2/T2

T2 = P2/(P1/T1)

P can be in any unit of measure, but T has to be in K.

Well, could it be in Rankine?