Henry Rono's incredible 1978 season by the numbers

Are you older than 15? I know your bias didn't know any limit, but is it just not possible for you to put straight some easy numbers? A Mile is 1609.32 meters. Now try to calculate 2 Miles. Not easy for someone like you, I know. But give it a try (you are allowed to use a caculator).

2 Miles is over 3 times the 800m? Well, in fact that's correct, but...

Aouita "struggled" to break that fantastic 2 Miles mark of Ovett? This mark was by far the "weakest" of all middle/long distance records from the late 70s/early 80s. It was a great victory for Ovett, for sure. But against the Rono from a few weeks earlier he would have had no chance. The race was exactly for his liking; a 7:32 3000m (maybe 8:05 for the 2 Miles) was out of his reach. Ovett has won the European 800m? That's new for me.

Just an info for you: Sebastian Coe, Steve Ovett, Steve Cram and Peter Elliott are not the only great runners in the history of distance running. And another info for you: other runners also have had injuries during their careers. And one more hint: what about starting to think before writing nonsense? What about working on to overcome your astonishing bias towars your four beloved athletes? (just for clarification: I also have the deepest respect (athletically speeking) for all of your four heros and two of them I also very much like as persons - one not so much and for one I just don't know).

You come across as the emotionally stunted child actually with your constant personal insults. O.K, I've belittled your hero but there's no need to resort to playground language. Further, the integrity of a poster who chooses a virtually admitted drug cheat as his hero has to be a little suspect, so I'm not going to take any lessons from you.

Yes, I know what a mile is, it was a typo. Grow up please.

Maybe the two mile WR was relatively weak. So why did Aouita only manage to shave 0.06 seconds off it in a paced all out attempt on it nearly 10 years later? The Ovett/Rono race wasn't a WR attempt it was a race, and neither were at their peak for that season.Ovett certainly was capable of a lot faster evidently. Aouita was running the 10K in 1987, whereas Ovett was defeating the new 800m superstar Coe in the European Championships. Two miles was the perfect distance for Aouita in 86 and 87 yet be barely beat Ovett's race time.

Yeah I know nearly all the greats from the 70's and 80's suffered terrible injuries when at the peak of their powers....well except Aouita - starting a trend that lasts to this day for Africans to have quite astonishing staying power and abilities to avoid injuries.

Really, you could make the case that Aouita is the most reprehensible character in track and field history, if he indeed did take PEDs. There's no absolute proof he did, but his encouragement of Australian athlete's to take them, along with the advice that 'everybody does', really does warrant the assumption that he did cheat. And if Aouita was the first in a long line of African drug cheats, who normalized the use of PEDs and began an era of cheating that has almost brought down Track and Field as a legitimate sport then I hope there's a place in hell for him.

And just to restate that I wasn't belittling Henry Rono - I've said here before that he was perhaps the most talented distance runner in history. And he was almost certainly clean. Well, unless you count booze as a PED, but it almost certainly hampered him.

Here's an interesting thread speculating what kind of 5K time Rono was capable of if he hadn't been getting plastered the day before big races, including his 13:06 5000m :

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=7001588

Coevett wrote:And let's not forget that Ovett destroyed Rono. He started waving at the crowd even before he'd passed him in the home straight.

Ovett set that WR when he wasn't even interested in times or records, he just enjoyed the challenge of racing. He had plenty left in the tank. Shame Rono was tired. If Rono was a bit fresher he could have paced Ovett to a time at least 5 or 6 seconds faster

i suggest you research better

a few months earlier on exact same london track when Henry was a little fresher, but had still run a lot, he crushed ovett over 3k !!!

7'43.84 v 7'48.02

anyone who'd seen that race knew ovett had no chance against Henry at ~ 3k/2 miles if Henry was fresh

only way ovett was going to beat Henry was if Henry was severely fatigued &/or ill &/or injured as ovett's win over 2 miles later indicated

Ovett was peaking for an event 3 months later (the Europeans).

Rono ran FIVE two mile races that season, and obviously the Ovett race was his fastest time.

Again, I'm not belittling Rono at all, but it was still an incredible achievement by Ovett. I could understand the 'tired' argument if they'd run in a slow time, but not so much in a world record race.

Steve Scott beat Ovett early in 1977. Does that mean Scott was the better 1500m runner in 77?

Coevett wrote:

calculo wrote:

i suggest you research better

a few months earlier on exact same london track when Henry was a little fresher, but had still run a lot, he crushed ovett over 3k !!!

7'43.84 v 7'48.02

anyone who'd seen that race knew ovett had no chance against Henry at ~ 3k/2 miles if Henry was fresh

only way ovett was going to beat Henry was if Henry was severely fatigued &/or ill &/or injured as ovett's win over 2 miles later indicated

A few months earlier? So you mean basically at the start of the season when Ovett was peaking for the 800/1500 in Prague later (and Rono was just trying to set fast times in distance events)?.

So at the start of the season when Ovett was fresh is worse than at the end of the season after Rono had run 45 races? You're an idiot.

Look at Rono's schedule the 10 days leading up to that 2 mile, while Ovett was focusing on the race of his life! Five races!

9/5 3 7:45.3 3000 International Frankfurt, GER

9/7 2 8:17.5 3000sc International Kloblenz, GER

9/9 1 27:53.8 10000 GBR vs FIN (guest) London, GBR

9/10 1 13:15.5 5000 International Rieti, ITA

9/12 1 7:49.3 3000 International Ingleheim, GER

9/15 2 8:14.7 2 mile Coca Cola London, GBR

If a single win determines who is the better runner than John Treacy is better than Ovett.

Eire Ire wrote:

Coevett wrote:

A few months earlier? So you mean basically at the start of the season when Ovett was peaking for the 800/1500 in Prague later (and Rono was just trying to set fast times in distance events)?.

So at the start of the season when Ovett was fresh is worse than at the end of the season after Rono had run 45 races? You're an idiot.

Look at Rono's schedule the 10 days leading up to that 2 mile, while Ovett was focusing on the race of his life! Five races!

9/5 3 7:45.3 3000 International Frankfurt, GER

9/7 2 8:17.5 3000sc International Kloblenz, GER

9/9 1 27:53.8 10000 GBR vs FIN (guest) London, GBR

9/10 1 13:15.5 5000 International Rieti, ITA

9/12 1 7:49.3 3000 International Ingleheim, GER

9/15 2 8:14.7 2 mile Coca Cola London, GBR

If a single win determines who is the better runner than John Treacy is better than Ovett.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVxxaj1j9nE

Really, clowns like you should at least learn to read before you engage in personal insults.

I never said Ovett was the better runner. WTF? You're sayin a two mile race with Rono was the 'race of Ovett's life'???

So according to you and Calculo, athletes are at their best in April/May right at the start of the season. The fact that in the last 50 years nearly all fast times, from pbs to wrs, have been set later in the season, only shows that runners are just 'doing what they have to do to win' early season??? So shouldn't runners start 'moving' their winter training by a few months and only start competing in the week or two before the major championships in order to be 'fresh' and at their best? Cretins.

Ovett and Rono raced twice and it was one/one. You and Calculo are trying to decide 'who the best' was on the basis of one race, on the grounds that the second race 'didn't count' because Rono was 'tired'. Clowns.

John Treacy only beat Ovett because of Ovett's arrogance. And btw, if you want to use tiredness as an excuse, Ovett was exhausted after Moscow. And what part of you don't understand about Ovett being a middle-distance runner not a distance runner? If Rono dropped down to 800 m in 78 and beat Ovett in a one off race in a time of 1:42, do you think I'd be arguing that 'Ovett was tired' and Rono never had any potential at 800m, his range was crap etc.?

@Said - and please don't bring the 'racism' argument in to it just because Aouita encouraged white athletes to cheat and those athletes reported him because it's not in our (track and field) culture to cheat. If Ovett, Coe etc had done the same thing I would assume they were cheats themselves and never defend them again. The fact that the British generation after Coe, Ovett, Cram were running 3:32 in the EPO decade proves that British track and field didn't have a PED culture, unlike the North Africans. Coe, Cram, Ovett, Elliot, all had different coaches. If they were all on PEDS, then the Brits in the 90s would certainly have been force feeding EPO down their lungs by the bucket load, In which case it's strange that the 90s generation ran slower than the 80's generation.

The only way for Ovett to beat Rono was to get him at the end of a 45 race season, the 6th race in 10 days in mid-September AT HOME. That was the only way for Ovett to beat Rono.

Thinking that Coe and Ovett weren't on drugs means that YOU are on drugs. They were.

Quit hijacking this thread. The title reads "Henry Rono's incredible 1978 season by the numbers" It does not read "Steve Ovett's one-time win against a tired Henry Rono in late September 1978"

Eire Ire wrote:

The only way for Ovett to beat Rono was to get him at the end of a 45 race season, the 6th race in 10 days in mid-September AT HOME. That was the only way for Ovett to beat Rono.

Thinking that Coe and Ovett weren't on drugs means that YOU are on drugs. They were.

Quit hijacking this thread. The title reads "Henry Rono's incredible 1978 season by the numbers" It does not read "Steve Ovett's one-time win against a tired Henry Rono in late September 1978"

Then there would be no discussion apart from the stats. This race was one of the number and Ovett smoked Rono.

Eire Ire wrote:

The only way for Ovett to beat Rono was to get him at the end of a 45 race season, the 6th race in 10 days in mid-September AT HOME. That was the only way for Ovett to beat Rono.

Thinking that Coe and Ovett weren't on drugs means that YOU are on drugs. They were.

Quit hijacking this thread. The title reads "Henry Rono's incredible 1978 season by the numbers" It does not read "Steve Ovett's one-time win against a tired Henry Rono in late September 1978"

Or maybe actually be a distance runner instead of an 800m/1500m specialist?

LOL. If Coe and Ovett were on drugs it's weird that junior champions with similar talent such as Sharpe and Robb evidently decided not to dabble with EPO just a few years later.

Insane Irish moron.

Given the insane number of races he ran and the comments about Chaplin, i ask:has there been a thread on the most demanding, abusive college coach? When I read about Ryun at Kansas, the guy at UTEP in the 70s with his parade of Kenyans, and Jumbo at Villanova (read the list of races in The back of Ronnie Delaney's autobiography), it looks like there should be some sort of balance between scoring points, running while at peak, and career longevity, both mental and physical, and some coaches didn't care about that.

said88 wrote:

The race was exactly for his liking; a 7:32 3000m (maybe 8:05 for the 2 Miles) was out of his reach. Ovett has won the European 800m? That's new for me.

How do you know a 7:32 3000m was out of his reach? Maybe it was, but anyway, it was a race not a time trial with Ovett running against Rono's optimal performance. He beat him on the night and it was a great achievement for a 1500m runner.

Ovett could clearly have run at least 4 or 5 seconds faster that night if he had to. So that would be around 7:35 for a 3000m especially for a 1500m runner. How fast could an 'optimal' Ovett run the 3000m if he'd specifically been training for longer distances? Not so far off 7:32 I would have thought. I think his 1500m pb in 78 was still only 3:33 or something similar and he went on to run 3:30 5 years later when not in his 78 shape. And he was still only 22 years old in 1978, Rono was 26 and at his very peak. Nobody even knew who Aouita was when he was 22.

And you know what I meant with the 800m comment idiot, the guy who beat him is an acknowledged doper and should have his medals taken away. Arguably, just as with Aouita.

@cowovettcramelliottfarahbannistergeorge

"You come across as the emotionally stunted child actually with your constant personal insults. O.K, I've belittled your hero but there's no need to resort to playground language. Further, the integrity of a poster who chooses a virtually admitted drug cheat as his hero has to be a little suspect, so I'm not going to take any lessons from you.

Yes, I know what a mile is, it was a typo. Grow up please.

Maybe the two mile WR was relatively weak. So why did Aouita only manage to shave 0.06 seconds off it in a paced all out attempt on it nearly 10 years later? The Ovett/Rono race wasn't a WR attempt it was a race, and neither were at their peak for that season.Ovett certainly was capable of a lot faster evidently. Aouita was running the 10K in 1987, whereas Ovett was defeating the new 800m superstar Coe in the European Championships. Two miles was the perfect distance for Aouita in 86 and 87 yet be barely beat Ovett's race time.

Yeah I know nearly all the greats from the 70's and 80's suffered terrible injuries when at the peak of their powers....well except Aouita - starting a trend that lasts to this day for Africans to have quite astonishing staying power and abilities to avoid injuries.

Really, you could make the case that Aouita is the most reprehensible character in track and field history, if he indeed did take PEDs. There's no absolute proof he did, but his encouragement of Australian athlete's to take them, along with the advice that 'everybody does', really does warrant the assumption that he did cheat. And if Aouita was the first in a long line of African drug cheats, who normalized the use of PEDs and began an era of cheating that has almost brought down Track and Field as a legitimate sport then I hope there's a place in hell for him."

I have already written a longer answer to this new nonsens which was not published (or deleted?). So in short:

For what ever reason do you want to show that Ovett was the better long distance runner than Henry Rono or Said Aouita? He wasn't. Others have given you some infos already.

The 2 Miles was not "maybe relatively weak". It was by far the weakest distance record in the late 70s/early80s. Can you please give me your infos about Aouita's "paced all out attempt" in which he only was capable of running 8:13.45? It seems you have seen the race. I havn't (just last 50 meters or so) so I would be very interested for any info which you can give. Aouita was the first under 7:30 (something like 8:03 2 Miles) and under 13:00. Times which Ovett difinitely was not capable to run. Why are you so focusing on this defeat of Rono? It was a great achievement from Ovett, no doubt. But in a perfect race for him. Little bit faster and he would have blown up, as shown on many other occasions. And he was not always "jogging" as many on this forum always claim. He always was flat out as you can see on the various videos of the races (I have close to 100 in my collection). He just was still capable of his famous finish and made it look relatively easy (which it not was). Maybe in perfectly paced races in around 1980 he was capable of little bit faster than 7:40 and 13:15. But not anywhere near a Rono or Aouita.

Just for your info: I have this name in all athletics forums where I occasionally post for more than 15 years. Coe and Cram are good friends of Aouita. What does this tell about your heros? And I much more like the person Ovett than the person Aouita. But to deny facts for some strange agenda (what ever it is) is dangerous.

OK, your hero is the 1978 European 800m champion. As well as the 1980 Olympic 1500m silver medalist, right? Maybe we just should claryfy that Ovett has won everything (if not for Coe). People who have beaten him don't count. If he wasn't there, well, but if, he definitely would... And Coe, Cram , Elliott easily would have won the double in Seoul if... (OK, many ifs but still...). But maybe you can enlighten me in which order these three would have won the 3 medals in both events if just in normal shape?

Aouita didn't had injury problems, ...well that's on a level to your other "typos".

And since Aouita was a product of the doping culture of North Africa (whereas in Britain something bad like this was not known about at all) you maybe can inform me about this little bit. Late 1970s - where was this doping-centre of Morocco? (just an info for you: they didn't had a single runner of international class when Aouita started slowly to go ahead in the rankings).

But we are out of topic. So, since the topic is Rono's '78 season by the numbers, so I will add a few numbers from my site:

http://thegreatdistancerunners.de/HenryRono.html

Maybe it should be made more clear, that the greatest long distance runner of 1978 in fact was Ovett, who has beaten Rono once.

@Said88

I only mentioned in passing here that it was remarkable that Ovett beat Rono in this season. That's more a compliment than a slight given the status of Ovett. You then started using personal insults and turned this thread into an Ovett vs Aouita discussion.

It's telling that you haven't mentioned once the scandal in Australia. You attempt to answer all my other points, but ignore that one. I would have my suspicions about Aouita even without that, but I wouldn't try to denigrate him if it wasn't for the fact that he encouraged his athletes to take PEDs and then ran from the enquiry. That alone should really completely invalidate his career. I believe in the principle of innocent until proven guilty, but not only did he not defend himself at the time, he apparently hasn't even spoken about the topic since, and yet found work as the Moroccon national coach afterwards, and elsewhere such as in Quatar.

There is nothing to suggest the Brits took drugs. I keep making the same points and lists of reasons why this is so, but you just repeat the allegations without addressing the Aouita/Australia issue.

If four uk 80's athletes, all talented juniors, with four different coaches, took drugs, then the 90's Brits such as Yates, Sharpe, Robb, who were also junior champs and close to the talent of Coe etc ought surely to have taken EPO. In which case they surely would have ran faster than they did.

For a brief period in the UK in the late 70's and 80's athletics was close to being the national sport in the UK. Only football received more coverage (in fact less coverage as only really big games were shown live on tv such as the fa cup final). This was perhaps unique in the western world at the time. 20 years later and most Brits couldn't recognise anyone other than Mo Farah and Usain Bolt. British kids are now the most inactive and fattest in the world. Nearly all the talented young athletes in the UK are signed by multi-billionaire football clubs in their early teens. The progression of times and performances of UK middle-distance runners from the 80's till now is completely consistent with all of that, especially when you factor in the domination of EPO fuelled African runners from the 90s leading to disclination to devote your life to a sport in which you couldn't effectively compete in without cheating.

said88 wrote:

Maybe it should be made more clear, that the greatest long distance runner of 1978 in fact was Ovett, who has beaten Rono once.

And who said this?

Ovett did beat Rono that season, and it's remarkable because Rono had enjoyed perhaps the most extraordinary sequence of long distance performances ever.

You're the one who is twisting this and turning it into a childish debate.

Yes, Rono was likely tired, and Ovett was likely not at this season's best either and was moving up to a distance over twice that which he normally ran in. Ovett did this in the same season he was competing in the 800m. And he broke the WR in the race.

It's the equivalent of a 200/400m sprinter challenging Coe over 1000m in 79 just after Coe had broken 4 WRs and not only beating him, but setting a new WR in the race, waving to the crowd as he did it. Yeah, Coe would have been tired...nothing to brag about.

But maybe it was arrogant and unsportsmanlike of Ovett to humiliate Rono by waving to the crowd as he passed him, especially as Rono was tired after a long season.

Never mind, you two just have at it.

This thread has derailed. Rono's season does make a mockery of those whose consider Ches to be an age cheat. He very well may be 28. So what. The NCAA apparently didn't consider Rono, Ches, or anyone else in their history to be too old. Sour grapes from all of you who burned your elegibity several years before your prime and got destroyed by those who didn't!

There's a photo of Rono leading a young looking Coe on one of Rono's media pages. What race was that and what was the result? Curious. Interesting match up.