Road Racing and Training Thread - Week Ending 11/16

Matthias: Congrats on the sizeable PR in your goal race! Always nice to get some scalps too! (Wait, you ran that off of 500 miles over 14 weeks! Wow!)

brumrunner: Sorry your health and fitness weren't perfect going into the race, but 32:03 is pretty solid!

The Stone Cutter: Glad to hear the injury scare wasn't anything serious. As I'm sure others have said, sometimes being forced to take some time off in the last couple of weeks can be a blessing in disguise, and it looks like you're taking it that way. Best of luck next week!

Forcerunner: Very solid training week with a good variety of efforts (and lots of hills)!

Pikachu: Dude, can you make it look at least a little bit harder? But seriously, great job in the race!

pewow: Good job in the time trial. Negative splitting in your first time on the track is a good sign of things to come!

Slartzio: Awesome to hear that the faster paces are starting to feel more natural. I definitely still have some work to do for getting used to stuff much faster than tempo over the next few weeks.

cmm268: Glad I'm not the only one who's been doing some treadmill tempo runs. Heh. Nice workouts and long run!

Distance Fan: Uh, good luck in the mile! I hope it works out better for you than it did for Ryan Hall a while back.

Hereford: Take care of your calves! And if you ever figure out how to keep them feeling good, let me know...

Hardloper: Good job adjusting to the conditions during your Thursday workout. Good luck in the races these next couple of weeks!

JSrun: Pretty solid tempo if you were only expecting 12:40 or so! Are you sure the effort level was appropriate? I'd definitely notice if I went 20s/mile faster than planned, but I guess it could just be one of those magical days.

As for my blister problems, my feet are incredibly sensitive to blisters and such. I have socks that I've found prevent problems in normal training, but when I did the track workout the Saturday before this week I forgot to bring thinner socks so when I spiked up I went sockless and paid for it.

KBXC: Good to see you back, and it's good to see that you finished out your season pretty well!

xenonscreams: Very solid workouts and mileage. Keep up the good work!

printer: Shame that you keep getting outkicked in that 5k. You'll get it one of these years!

sps: I guess the lack of sleep really shows in your pace vs. aHR on Friday's run! Definitely makes sense, though, and I know I've had similar experiences.

Reg Fields: Good luck at Philly!

Bonham: I'm not entirely sure the best way to deal with the pace restriction, but you can definitely use the incline to do hill reps and there the 11 mph will be plenty!

http://www.hillrunner.com/training/tmillchart.php

reed: Isn't this the course where they're going to hold USATF Club XC next year? Not sure how the singletrack is supposed to work in a race of that size...

As for how slow the course was, it's hard to say since people had very different responses to the cold and I've pretty much never ran a flat XC race. But for what it's worth, I think I could run an 8k around 26:30 on the track right now, and the two Princeton runners just behind me ran 16:07 and 16:09 track 5ks in the time trial last week. Also, based on the Stanford runners, I'd guess the course was 30-40s faster than your regional course. Thus, I'd guess you'd be somewhere in the 10-34 range depending on exactly how things played out for you, but expect you to be in the top 25.

RunnersFix: I said it to Pikachu: and I'll say it to you as well: can you make it look a little bit harder? Those are some awesome workouts amidst all of that mileage! Also, you say your legs on Sunday may have been feeling bad because of the mileage, but in the next sentence you say it's feeling good and are going to increase again. Am I missing something? Or is this just what heavy marathon training should feel like?

[bTheGarbageDisposal: Sorry to hear that your half marathon season didn't end how you wanted it to. I definitely know that feel of continually revising goals downwards during long races. Best of luck getting back to improving over these next few months!

Matthias: Congrats on the PR!

brumrunner: Nice job despite several obstacles.

The Stone Cutter: Sorry to hear, but remember when I had peroneal tendonitis last season? Same part of the season. I took some time off, took it really easy once I got back into it, and ran a 10K PR by a minute. You'll be fine, glad to hear you're being smart. Good luck! :)

Pikachu: Wow, nice win!

pewow: Hope you feel refreshed and ready to take on indoor.

Slartzio: Nice, consistent workouts.

Hereford: I think you should be able to, given the calf and the porta potty stop. Have you tried compression socks? My calves got so sore after one XC meet that I couldn't even walk the next day, and I put on compression socks and bam, magic, I could run! I've been wearing them at and after important races or especially hard workouts since then.

TheGarbageDisposal: Sorry about the bad day, but glad you're able to see the bigger picture. It will come! Make sure you get some rest.

I knew I was going after than planned, but I felt really good so I just kept going. Then, before the last lap I realized I could break 12 if I wanted to. So I picked it up a bit, and felt great afterwords, so I'm really happy with it. Gonna move up to 2.5 mile tempo this week and see how that goes

JSrun wrote:

I knew I was going after than planned, but I felt really good so I just kept going. Then, before the last lap I realized I could break 12 if I wanted to. So I picked it up a bit, and felt great afterwords, so I'm really happy with it. Gonna move up to 2.5 mile tempo this week and see how that goes

I knew I was going *faster* than planned. Curse you autocorrect!

TheGarbageDisposal: I hate you had a rough day out there. You do have a great perspective though. Taking those chunks of time of your PRs within a year, when you're already at a high level, is noteworthy. Your also won a marathon!!!!!!

You're in a position to take the next couple of months and put it together for a great marathon.

xenonscreams: I hope you get to run against Lauren Fleshman. That's cool. One of my running friends ran the Master's 12k Championship this past weekend (setting a 60-64 record I believe) and he got to meet Molly Huddle. That's gotta be pretty exciting.

StevenJ- Thanks for the good words. As for the mileage part, I was feeling the mileage just on that particular day because the 3 days prior were 20, 16, 16 with the 20 miler being a slight progression. In the overall picture the mileage isn't as bad as I thought it would be. I probably should have worded that better in my post lol. But I'll be at over 115mpw for the next 6-7 weeks and maybe peak around 125-130 then I'll start my taper.

Pewow: Nice mile TT - especially so close to a race that was before!

Slartzio: I like how you progress and keep it fun.

Matthias: Massive PR – but I saw that one coming :P You were just training REALLY good quality stuff...

cmm268: I'll take you as example and try to do a bit more planks and strength/flexibility stuff, too :-) Really good week...

Distance Fan: As I am not from the US, unfortunately I don't know most of those marathons, so cannot say which are good and which are not so good :-)

Hereford: Come on man – 6:14 pace for a tune up half? I REALLY believe you are capable of much more than 2:50 :-)

Hardloper: Nice workouts, a couple of days and then it's time to roll!!

The Stone Cutter: Haha, I can't wait for it, too! But for today I have to admit I have a little bit aching muscles in my legs from the XC race :D

JSrun: You're not voring anyone :-) Nice week and keep progressing!

KBXC: Don't be disappointed – like I said earlier: You never know in XC if the course is measured super accurate (at least over here in Europe in most races).

Xenonscreams: Thanks and... Nice week. 75 miles including great quality. Way to go!

Printer: Who knows... Perhaps that unplanned rest was perfect for you to feel fresh and healthy come race day!

Sps: Nice progress – keep up the good work.

StevenJ: Your 400s and 200s remind me that I still have to get more comfortable at faster speeds :-) And easy? Haha... The race was bloody tough for me :-)

Reg Fields: Good luck (and nerves :P) in your taper :-)

Bonham: Don't sweat over the treadmills. 11MPH and a couple of strides or short hill stuff outside will work wonders!

Reed: Great race. I do not really wonder about your soreness. An all out 2 mile TT is pretty rough 5 days out from a 10k XC race!

RunnersFix: Thanks! I believe I could run at least sub 31 for 10k right now, too. That being said: I like how you progress... Very impressive week. Your training reminds me a bit of Ryan Vails... He does lots of high mileage intervals, too... Bloody tough.

Swift23r: Typical Swift23r week – great as always!

Working harder: I like that „overslept - so ran faster“ :D

Garbage Disposal: Leave the race behind you. You made great progress and one thing: When I am not 100 % feeling it, my HM pace is pretty close to my PR MP... So who knows what will happen at Houston ;-)

Well perhaps it wasn't as much "overslept" as it was "gf kept me from getting out of bed earlier" ;) Needless to say it was supposed to be an easy 10 miler that morphed into a harder 5 miler. All in the name of science and definitely worth it.

Garbage disposal - great effort Sunday man. Don't let it get to you that you didn't get the time you wanted. Look at how much you have progressed over the 12 months! You've had some cracking races and there can only be more to come from you i'm sure of it! I wish you all the best for your marathon training, your goals are achievable no doubt. :)

I'll echo Netwerk's sentiment; Cutter - best of luck this weekend! I hope your foot issue has been resolved. You've put in the hard work. Time to cash that check! I'm pulling for you, brother!

Garbage - put into context, your Vegas result is still pretty damn amazing. It's a performance level that many of us will never achieve. And your progression within just 12 months is astounding, especially since you were already at the fast end of the field. You have an incredible base of fitness and knowledge to extend into 2015. Great year!

Hereford wrote:

I'll echo Netwerk's sentiment; Cutter - best of luck this weekend! I hope your foot issue has been resolved. You've put in the hard work. Time to cash that check! I'm pulling for you, brother!

Thanks for all the support, guys! No matter what, I know I won't be running alone on Sunday.

As far as the ankle, I am still not quite sure what to make of it but as of now it seems to be getting better on a daily basis, which is reassuring. It's presently not hindering my running and I certainly won't use it as any kind of excuse. I still fully plan on breaking 2:50, so that's the mindset. I would feel better if I am 100% asymptomatic by Sunday morning, but it is what it is. I surely know what 6:25-:30/mi pace feels like, so let's see if I got 26.2 of 'em in me! :)

I haven't been great at getting to everyone with comments lately, and for that I apologize. My work week and kids' school schedule is rough Monday-Thursday, so I hope to squeeze in some feedback on Friday with a last minute update.

Happy running everyone. Enjoy the ride.

I'm finishing page 1 tonight will do Page 2 and 3 tomorrow on conference calls hopefully:)

Distance Fan-another nice week of recovery, enjoy it. I mentioned last week that a lot of folks on my club run Shamrock so I'd vote for that one:)

Hereford-With a sore calf you still put in a very solid time in that half. I think you project out to 2:50 based on that pace but do the little things right for the next 1.5 weeks...rest and recovery. Hay is in the barn for you as well like StoneCutter so getting healthy should be top priority

HardLoper-Very solid workout with that 12x1/2mile. Looking good for 11/30!

JSrun-Actually reading your recap made me realize how lucky I am. I was complaining that we were in the 20s this morning but your weather puts us to shame! Some good quality in your week, especially given the conditions. Scary to think what all of our winters could wind up being on the misery scale:(

Stone Cutter- Just wanted to wish you good luck this weekend. You've been one of the most consistent posters on this thread, in both your training and your contributions, feedback, and encouragement to this group. I don't think anyone would fault you for putting yourself first this week. (and for what's worth, I didn't notice a dropoff in comments from you at all)

Also, thanks for the kind words everyone. I think in a way having a group like this holds me accountable to the goals I set for myself going into races as well as giving my best effort when things aren't going well. It's one thing to step back and put a bad race in perspective by looking at the big picture, but another to hear from others with similar experiences that can commiserate.

Hardloper - Good luck in the 5K this weekend! If you have the speed right now to break 17:00, I would venture a guess that you have the strength to run 1:20 for the half based on your cruise interval 1/2mi session.

JSrun - Ah, the old random training run race! What fun! I am not sure what part of the country you are in, but I hope you are dealing with the snow okay. I hate road running on snowy/icy days.

Hereford - I like your equally wise words just as well, "Run with heart." I'll have to use that as a mantra on Sunday. :)

KBXC - Glad to hear the season ended on a high note.

xenonscreams - Best of luck at regionals! Thanks for the encouragement - you were actually the first person I thought of when my right peroneal started acting up. Thanks for reminding me how well you did in that 10k shortly thereafter - I forgot about the timing of all that! Symptoms seem to be way better this week with the relative rest and taper, so hopefully I can duplicate your success with a big PR. :)

printer - I never got to officially welcome you back last week - great to have you posting again! 10 miles at 6:30/mi is no joke - even if that is optimistic marathon pace for you, that should at least put that 2:53 PR on the table for you with a bit more proper pacing.

sps - You are building very nicely week to week on your comeback, playing it VERY smart. I admire your discipline and dedication to doing it the "right" way.

Thanks for the well-wishes!

StevenJ - Solid running at NIRCA! Like you said, re-experiencing that pack running atmosphere will only help you when it comes time for Club Nats, where I am sure it will be a MONSTER pack. :)

Reg Fields - All signs are pointing to that sub-3:00! Just keep believing it and you'll make it happen. I'll see if I can find you in the starting corral for a quick hello beforehand and/or look for you at the finish.

Bonham - I am relatively newer to treadmill running so I don't have it down like some other posters may, but one of favorite yearlong workouts to do that keeps my speed and strength in the same workout is 10-12 x 1/4mi hill with jog down recoveries. I have simulated this workout successfully on a treadmill by giving myself a moving start, then first raising the incline to about 4-5%, then setting the speed (just over 10mph for me, maybe the full 11mph for you). For the recovery I first hit the speed setting to slow it down to a slow jog (around 7mph for me, maybe 8mph for you?), and then hitting the incline setting back to 0-1%.

Thanks for your support this entire cycle. Like you said, it's time to go get it! :)

reed - Those time trials on the track are always tricky, especially if you fall off the pace early. Great that you were able to do some of the work and fall into that negative split though.

And very nice showing on Sunday for what sounds like an awesome course. You have had a very consistent season this year, well done.

Pikachu - No doubt that both you and Runnersfix have amazing talent, eventually in the same territory maybe, but what I meant is that yours seems innate and can come and go meteorically, like all of a sudden - boom - very fast race without any indication. I see Runnersfix as the ultimate professional, he does everything properly, never tries to kill workouts, but stays steady, steady, steady, and works very diligently for the great results he gets. I think he has a better "feel" for his training than most of us do, not because he is faster, but because he knows his body/habits/stimuli very well and so knows what to expect. You on the other hand, Pikachu, veteran that you even are, seem to still be learning what works and doesn't work for you. I like your thinking for this upcoming cycle with a little lesser volume and more built in recovery - that's a plan that I can see working well for you.

Runnersfix - Again, three picture perfect sessions. I especially liked how you showed that last mile who was boss on your 4x2mi workout, haha.

Thanks for the support, things definitely seem to be coming back around this week. Two days to go!

swift23r - I will never in my life run 154 laps of anything, haha. :)

Working harder - Overall strong week with steady doses of quality. I wouldn't worry much about the volume, especially if you are trying to be sharper for that sub-17 attempt.

TheGarbageDisposal - Strong race performance, even if it wasn't the goal you initially set. Your long-term perspective is admirable. That is the kind of perspective that will keep you progressing for next year, and the year after, and the year after. You are a terrific model for the rest of us about how far you've come even just in the last 2-3 years.

Likewise for you Stonecutter with sub 2:50. I'll be in the maroon corral before the race, would be cool to see you there again. You've got this man and if you do see me at the finish line hopefully I'm moving faster than I was last year.

I live just east of Wichita, Kansas, and yeah the snow is a pain but it's even worse when it turns to ice. Luckily it's all melted off the roads now, and we are supposed to be getting some decent weather this next week high 40s-mid 50s.

Hey Stone Cutter - good luck with your marathon! You have it in you - just execute!! :-)

Stone Cutter - Best of luck on Sunday!