Duke NOT racing full team - forfeits men's and women's races at regionals

rojo wrote:

When the going gets tough, you don't just forfeit. Unless you are a Duke.

I don't think it's about having a bad team. They've gone to regionals with bad teams plenty of times in the past (at least on the mens side).

I think it is more like treating regionals as a privilege and making your team earn it.

Again I don't know because I don't know what is going on on the inside. But I don't think it's the same as just ducking the competition because you suck.

Duke

Anima Banks JR 67

Wesley Frazier SO 68

Madison Granger JR 69

Haley Meier SO 70

Hannah Meier SO 71

Julianna Miller SR 72

Paige Rice FR 73

Jessie Rubin SR 74

Colleen Schmidt SR 75

Callie Wynn FR 76

Total: 10

Duke

Phil Fairleigh SR 391

William Hague JR 392

Brian Schoepfer SR 393

Blake Udland JR 394

Total: 4

crabapple wrote:

I think it is more like treating regionals as a privilege and making your team earn it.

I kind of understand this mentality, but I have a hard time saying that regionals is a privilege. Two meets should be on every team's schedule: conferences and regionals. If your school sponsors a cross country team, a full team should be fielded at both those meets.

Taking a trip across the country for an invitational? That's a privilege.

If i were one of the varsity guys not running regionals, I would be pissed. There's no way the coach can justify not running a full team at regionals. Imagine explaining to the AD why there's a NTS next to Duke's name in the region results:

"The runners slacked off all season so I punished them by not letting them run regionals." "Why didn't you address the issues earlier? Why wait until the last weekend of the season?"

"The runners are not in shape to run regionals." "Why did you under/over train them and not have they ready for the most important meet of the year?"

"We underperformed at prenationals so we won't have a shot at making nationals." "Why did we spend thousands of dollars flying you to Indiana when running that meet wouldn't make a difference?"

I have had a hard time rationalizing why an institution like Duke isn't fielding a top 20 team every single year. Lets go over some points:

1. Duke is a university that HIGHLY values not only academic success, but also athletic success. If you don't believe me just look up the ratio of athletes compared to normal students. It's very high, therefore, Duke lets a lot of athletes into the school who otherwise would not be there. There is also a ton of support for student athletes at Duke along with a top 10 institutional ranking, which in theory, should attract very good recruits (i.e. Wesley Frazier).

2. The training facilities for the runners are amazing. They have an ENTIRE forest (right on campus) filled with a trail system of soft surface along with other excellent training venues not far away from campus. Word is they even are getting a brand new track facility. Thus, facilities are excellent.

Duke athletics breath excellence and the distance program should be nothing short of excellent. Scholarships or not, if you can't foster a culture on your team that values success over social status then you, as a coach, are doing something wrong. For example, I can't imagine kids at a school like Stanford don't experience the same sort of academic and social pressures as kids at Duke, yet Stanford is light years ahead of Duke as a distance program. It's a shame.

crabapple wrote:

I think it is more like treating regionals as a privilege and making your team earn it.

Again I don't know because I don't know what is going on on the inside. But I don't think it's the same as just ducking the competition because you suck.

I have a hard time believing that there aren't at least five runners on a roster of 25 who have "earned" the privilege of running at regionals. Regardless, it seems like a backwards philosophy. "We really want you to raise your level of competition. How are we going to do that? By holding you out of a competitive championship meet."

DOOOOOOK wrote:

They may not run fast but they will be your boss one day. THAT actually matters in this world.

Yes, because the business world is looking for quitters.

The men were were in the bottom 5 at Prenats, the women were in the bottom 3 at Wisconsin. The regional meet is for trying to qualify for nationals. Based upon these two meets, they don't have a chance. They all got plenty of time to travel this season and they can use some of that budget to send athletes to track meets later this year. Kudos to the Duke coaches.

113 wrote:

crabapple wrote:

I think it is more like treating regionals as a privilege and making your team earn it.

Again I don't know because I don't know what is going on on the inside. But I don't think it's the same as just ducking the competition because you suck.

I have a hard time believing that there aren't at least five runners on a roster of 25 who have "earned" the privilege of running at regionals. Regardless, it seems like a backwards philosophy. "We really want you to raise your level of competition. How are we going to do that? By holding you out of a competitive championship meet."

Duke places 10th in ACC Championship

35 Jessie Rubin SR Duke 21:18.1 35

47 Hannah Meier SO Duke 21:27.8 47

56 Haley Meier SO Duke 21:35.9 55

71 Colleen Schmidt SR Duke 21:51.1 67

76 Wesley Frazier SO Duke 21:54.4 72

77 Anima Banks JR Duke 21:54.8 73

81 Madison Granger JR Duke 22:01.0 76

109 Callie Wynn FR Duke 22:28.6

Duke Competes at Wisconsin adidas Invitational

In the Championship Race, Duke’s top five finishers crossed the line within 30 seconds of one another, as sophomore Haley Meier paced the Blue Devils by placing 146th with a 6K time of 21:39. Graduate student Jessie Rubin clocked nearly the same time as Haley, finishing in 149th with a time of 21:41. Sophomore Wesley Frazier broke the 22-minute mark after placing 180th and stopping the clock at 21:56. Junior Anima Banks and sophomore Hannah Meier rounded out Duke’s scoring five, placing 185th and 198th, respectively. Banks finished in a time of 22:00, while Hannah posted a time of 22:08.

Senior Colleen Schmidt and freshman Callie Wynn also took the start line for the women’s Championship Race, placing 205th and 243rd, respectively. Schmidt recorded a time of 22:15, while Wynn saw a time of 22:56.

In the women’s Open Race, junior Madison Granger placed in the top 70, finishing 68th overall with a time of 22:32. In addition to Granger, junior Olivia Anderson (79th) and senior Julianna Miller (97th) also entered the Open Race, finishing in times of 22:56 and 23:21, respectively.

Duke Places 10th at Battle in Beantown

Graduate student Jessie Rubin helped guide the Blue Devils to their 10th-place finish, clocking a five-kilometer time of 17:39 and crossing the line in 22nd place. Sophomore Wesley Frazier, in just the second collegiate five-kilometer race of her career, averaged 5:44 per mile over the 3.1 mile course to finish 36th overall in a time of 17:51.

Duke’s third and fourth finishers, junior Anima Banks and sophomore Hannah Meier finished within two seconds of one another, as Banks crossed the line in 59th place with a time of 18:09. Meier finished in 64th place with a time of 18:11.

Sophomore Haley Meier, serving as Duke’s fifth runner, placed 90th overall, in a time of 18:28.

NCAA Southeast Regional

45 Jessie Rubin SR Duke 21:17.18 1 (45)

86 Haley Meier SO Duke 21:59.50 1 (86)

http://flashresults.com/2015_Meets/xc/ncaase/index.htm

speaking of wesley frazier - didn't she triple at some big championship meet in HS? And I know Abbey D did something like that at the HEPS meet.

And neither has run particularly well since.

I know there are probably girls who quadrupled and are running great, but interesting pattern.

Maybe those two were just so caught up with being on the former teams...that after they left those teams running lost some of its meaning.

Bonkers wrote:

The only reason I can think for not sending a full team is that the coaches want to avoid finishing way down in the standings by not even scoring as a team, which is pathetic. Absolutely pathetic.

You could also have a discipline issue that needs to be addressed, potentially even something alleged depending on when the report was made. I'm not trying to imply anything happened at Duke, just giving a hypothetical. Let's say something happened last weekend on campus, a serious breach of team policy or university standards. In that case, if I'm a coach or AD, I might tell the team members who were involved that their season is over. If coaches/schools weren't so unwilling to do that we might not see some of the major behavioral issues we see with some college athletes.

Athletes get injures, have poor season, etc.

What I like about sport is when injuries do occur it gives athletes filling in a chance to shine on a bigger stage. I find it hard to believe that Duke with a solid roster could not find, or give some lesser runners, a chance or the experience to run in a regional meet. This is where breakthroughs can occur for athletes.

ALWAYS give those athletes that chance.

Frazier will be gone soon. Almost transferred after last season.

remember last year when duke has flotrack's preseason #1 ranking since they had 3 sub 4:43 girl milers (Meier twins, Wesley Frazier) Where has Wesley Frazier been? She ran 15:55 her senior year.. would have been expecting big things from her.

You don't even know whether it was the school's decision of the athletes'.

Until you do, words like "shameful" are a little strong.

No one has suggested this yet: Discipline issues? Maybe the teams partied when coaches told them not to except these runners? Maybe everyone else skipped a 6 am practice?

edward teach wrote:

No one has suggested this yet: Discipline issues? Maybe the teams partied when coaches told them not to except these runners? Maybe everyone else skipped a 6 am practice?

I have no idea why Duke isn't taking a full team. However,if I was a great HS runner, signed with Duke, and now end up with this obviously amateur for a coach, I might party. Not much incentive when you are dealing with incompetence at the top. They get rid of one bad coach and then immediately hire another bad coach. Makes no sense.

Don't know much about the men's team, but the talented women's team deserves better.

Whatever may have happened, it appears that Duke has ruined a bunch of very good runners.

Either it's discipline or embarrassment. They partied en masse when the coach wanted them on a curfew or the new coach didn't want to have a headline of them finishing way, way back. Many teams struggle with new coaches. But the idea that you give up and don't compete because you don't have a chance of getting through is ridiculous. Why then are there hundreds of teams out there in every sport? 99% of them have no chance of getting top 30 nationally. And why do you send them to the 10k regionals? Get them experience and see what it takes for next year. This is a bad decision and a bad precedent for a dying sport that can't generate the attention and #'s that AD's today are looking for, even if it has strong GPA.