BREAKING: Kenya is forced to setup anti doping agency in Kenya

Clerk wrote:

The correlation between Kenya's culture of success correlates too highly with their culture of lax testing.

In a land of meaningless, absurd comments, this one stands out above almost all I've read on this site. Congrats, you've reduced communication to a random stringing together of words that sound vaguely like they could have some sort of meaning, but don't, when placed next to one another in a "sentence."

trollism wrote:

But Canova admitted that there is no blood testing in East Africa.

Out of competition blood tests are pretty rare in general. In 2013, out of 2268 out of competition tests that were administered, only 385 of them involved taking blood.

Jeff Wigand wrote:

Clerk wrote:

that the playing field is not level if they are not being dope-controlled;

But they are.

Not without OOC blood tests.

The EPO urine test is ineffective. A full does injected EPO will clear the system in 2-3 days. Also, there are over 80 derivatives of EPO available, which may or may not be detectable by the urine test

(remember that the test needs to distinguish between natural EPO and synthetic. WADA is currently working on a passport type-system that will trace molecular signatures of an athlete's natural EPO, and compare that to any foreign signatures found as a means of detection).

So, the ABP is the best way to detect blood doping. It relies on patterns of new blood cells, hemocrit, and HGB to trace whether the body has been sitmulated by EPO: an increase in new blood cells and HGB suggest EPO. A decrease indicates going off EPO ahead of competition (to avoid urine positives). Altitude factors into this, whether the increases meet or exceed expectations consistent with altitude adaptations. A decrease in new blood cells, or an increase in HGB in periods of heavy competition suggest a blood bag.

There are a few indicators, but effective tracking relies on tests both in and out of competition.. If you only collect samples the day before competition, then you are conly comparing values to other days before competition. Whether the athlete is clean or not, they will not be different. But if they are significantly different to an OOC training cycle, then there is something worth investigating.

No OOC ABP testing makes the whole process moot.

See my above note. Out of competition blood tests represent less than 17% of all out of competition tests. They're rare for America and Europe.

Wait a minute. How many TIMES was Galen Rupp tested OUT OF COMPETITION last year? (BLOOD TESTING)

Jeff Wigand wrote:

See my above note. Out of competition blood tests represent less than 17% of all out of competition tests. They're rare for America and Europe.

I agree, it is too low. Without more testing, the ABP is useless. That's part of why I believe the whole culture of elite athletics is one of doping; it is too easy to get away with it, and the rewards are high. In Kenya, it is even easier. When combined with the world's best talent pool, the rewards of doping are even higher: WRs and championship medals.

Can I just say here, potentially offensively, that the idea of a massive EPO operation in Kenya without it ever being exposed, is ludicrous.

if there were a large amount of EPO use, someone would say something, someone would take a picture. But we have N-O-T-H-I-N-G.

other than some german journo, without sources. Kisorio was caught for 'roids, right? Not EPO.

In rich countries, you can hide in rooms, have your own fridge, etc. I suspect people don't have their own fridges in their own apartment in freaking Iten to store their EPO.

If widespread EPO use is happening, it is happenign within some organization. Which makes the whole idea very very dubious.

I think a lot of the allegations here are ridiculous. However, a Kenyan Anti Doping Agency can be a good thing in theory. Let's say, hypothetically, we were to assign an honest doping controller to each Kenyan athlete to monitor them 24hrs a day and found nothing. This would take away every idiotic excuse and quasi-racist allegation one could produce on the LRC boards (if only that were true). Then what are we left with? They just train harder and better. More transparency removes excuses.

I had the opportunity to spend some time with Renato in Kenya and accompanied him on a workout with Abel Kirui in his lead up to London. I have seen how hard they work, top to bottom. They train better than we do.

Here is my concern. Kenyan culture and AK in particular is not set up to make an anti-doping agency work well. The type of reporting required to randomly test in and out of season may be problematic. I have little faith in the corrupt Athletics Kenya to be able to fairly and effectively develop such a program. And who will pay the price if some thing goes wrong organizationally? It won't be Isaiah Kiplagat...it will be the poor upcoming Kenyan runner who may have trained cleanly but gets dinged for administrative faults.

In another related news...

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/kenyan-rugby-caught-up-in-doping-scandal-20141020-1193df.html

agip wrote:

I suspect people don't have their own fridges in their own apartment in freaking Iten to store their EPO.

Confirmed.

Most guys bunking in Iten or Eldoret to train with the groups there barely have what you'd call a bedroom to themselves, let a lone their own bathroom or fridge.

And yet dozens, no hundreds, of Kenyans travel the globe picking up money from racing. Just how do they do that if they are so destitute? They have the means to fly to foreign countries and set up living there for months on end - do you think that costs nothing? What's a plane ticket from Kenya to the US cost? What does room and board per week cost? What does travel in the US to races cost?

Who is footing all the bills?

Clerk wrote:

it is too easy to get away with it

I don't know what this supposition is based on, unless you are speaking from personal experience.

better than ever wrote:

Who is footing all the bills?

Most often the competitions themselves.

better than ever wrote:

And yet dozens, no hundreds, of Kenyans travel the globe picking up money from racing. Just how do they do that if they are so destitute? They have the means to fly to foreign countries and set up living there for months on end - do you think that costs nothing? What's a plane ticket from Kenya to the US cost? What does room and board per week cost? What does travel in the US to races cost?

Who is footing all the bills?

dozens! must be...literally...THOUSANDS of dollars! holy crap where could these riches be coming from?????

Let's start testing Kenyan NCAA kids too when we are at it, they must be using EPO, they come here and whop your behinds over and over and over.

KenyanDopers wrote:

We could be on the verge of a Tour-de-France 1998 mega-doping scandal.

Farmer comes out of nowhere to run 4:4x pace for 26.2 miles. It's in their genes! I guess he came from an extra special place that 100s of Kenyans who were running 2:07-8s in the 90s didn't?

You lot are going to be disappointed if you are hoping for a mega doping scandal. Kenyan runners are already the most tested out of competition. Look up the IAAF stats.

Milan wrote:

KenyanDopers wrote:

We could be on the verge of a Tour-de-France 1998 mega-doping scandal.

Farmer comes out of nowhere to run 4:4x pace for 26.2 miles. It's in their genes! I guess he came from an extra special place that 100s of Kenyans who were running 2:07-8s in the 90s didn't?

You lot are going to be disappointed if you are hoping for a mega doping scandal. Kenyan runners are already the most tested out of competition. Look up the IAAF stats.

keep up - the question is not how many out of comp tests are adminstered, but if they are urine (not good at detecting EPO) or blood (can create a passport to show abnormal blood patterns so much better at detectign EPO)

I believe there are very few blood out of comp tests in kenya.

Is this right?

Milan wrote:

You lot are going to be disappointed if you are hoping for a mega doping scandal. Kenyan runners are already the most tested out of competition. Look up the IAAF stats.

Yeah, MOST TESTED BY THE IAAF.

The IAAF don't test in nations that have trusted anti-doping setups. That's why it seems like these sketchy countries are getting some sort of special treatment.

They're not. The IAAF are just trying (badly I would imagine) to plug a gap and perhaps make it at least look fair to those nations that are subject to anti-doping protocols far more draconian than 'Pee in a pot please, and we'll see you again perhaps in a year, perhaps two'

agip wrote:

Milan wrote:

You lot are going to be disappointed if you are hoping for a mega doping scandal. Kenyan runners are already the most tested out of competition. Look up the IAAF stats.

keep up - the question is not how many out of comp tests are adminstered, but if they are urine (not good at detecting EPO) or blood (can create a passport to show abnormal blood patterns so much better at detectign EPO)

I believe there are very few blood out of comp tests in kenya.

Is this right?

i doubt there's any blood tests unless they have set up the mobile lab they were talking about

the blood sample has to get to the lab quickly and the chain of command etc. has to be strictly observed