The Great Oak High School Juggernaut

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I find it interesting how the haters come out when a program attains what seems to be an unusual level of success. I've seen it with the Saugus girls and the Arcadia boys, and now Great Oak. Terms like dictator, obsessive, and much worse are thrown around.

Now don't get me wrong - these programs no doubt require a very high level of training and dedication. I think their mileage is on the higher end of the norm for high school programs. It takes a lot to attain this level of success, and the Great Oak kids (and Saugus and Arcadia) have paid their dues.

But what I've personally witnessed in my interaction in interviews with these athletes (Great Oak in particular) is the high level of commitment these kids have. They are bought in 110%. They are committed to one another. They believe in their program and their coach. They believe they can win state championships.

As for Coach Soles, his openness about his program and what makes them a success only helps the sport including all of their competitors.

Kudos to Great Oak and best of luck this season.

What I believe Ex Coach meant was that the mileage weekly totals Coach Soles mentioned in reality is not what the team actually runs. What all running included the miles would be much different. He is not I believe attacking the Great Oak program for it is one of the top high school programs in the nation without doubt. A lot of programs run the mileage that they do, but most coaches include all running and he just believes that coach includes training, not warm up, cool down strides etc. if the program works why change, but coach needs to. Figure in all running. Most people have the highest esteem for the Great Oaks program, that was not questioned just the actual miles ran nothing more

Honey-Spence is love,Honey-Spence is love

eligibility popo wrote:

Is Spencer Dodds eligible to compete?

Dodds spencer Great Oak Pending Former School(s) Response 2014-15 00/00/0000

http://www.cifsshome.org/public-transfers.php?start=0&school_id=221&year=2014-15

Guys,

When I plan for a week's training, I try to keep track of all mileage run:

-Warm-up (Running to a location, laps around field, but not drills)

-Workout

-Cooldown

Our mileage and consistency changed considerably in 2012 when we started using Garmin's every day to track what we were doing and trying to find the most efficient way to get our kids to a competitive level. I try to plan all running for the day, take that total with morning mileage and add it all together to get the week. I don't think there is a conspiracy on this one, just a bunch of kids working hard to get better and move up the team rankings. I'm not trying to hide mileage anywhere. I learned a lot from the Garmin's once we all had them how important consistency of pace was and what zones worked for us training wise. I did not realize how much I was flying blind before.

Like Brad Pitt says in Moneyball "Adapt or die." Our program evolves each year, hopefully for the better. California is an incredibly deep state with a tremendous amount of amazing coaches. If you aren't finding ways to get better, you are finding ways to get beat.

People need to quit the mileage shaming. Coaches, build and develop programs that work for your clientele and work as hard for them as you expect them to work for you and your team will get better.

I thought this thread was going to be about Flagpole's legendary thrashing of Scott Fry... :-)

Nice work with the kids Coach Soles

"I find it interesting how the haters come out when a program attains what seems to be an unusual level of success. I've seen it with the Saugus girls and the Arcadia boys, and now Great Oak. Terms like dictator, obsessive, and much worse are thrown around..."

Agreed, Scott, especially here in the INfamous letsrun.com message boards since they won't be responsible in their registration of accounts like others (e.g., dyestatcal.com, prepcaltrack.com).

Congratulations to Coach Soles and Great Oak. They work hard and it shows.

-- Mark

You just have to wonder if we are going to see what happened way back when. guys were all hammering away trying to get better, then fizzled out when they got to the next level.

What did malmo call it, californication or something like that?

the 70's all over... wrote:

You just have to wonder if we are going to see what happened way back when. guys were all hammering away trying to get better, then fizzled out when they got to the next level.

What did malmo call it, californication or something like that?

No. I was always amazed at the California kids.

Coach Soles,

You mention above consistency of pace and training zones. Do you mind sharing some of your findings?

Don't expect you to divulge all of your success secrets but even just generalities would be of interest to coaches and running geeks.

Things what type of runners benefit from what paces, speed vs. perceived effort, recovery, etc. Might be a good discussion.

Coach Soles didn't you learn form last years state meet rant on this site that your best bet list not to respond to ANYONE!

Did 49er legend Jose Montana's kid run XC at Great Oak?

Viva La Raza wrote:

Did 49er legend Jose Montana's kid run XC at Great Oak?

No, his son played FB at Oaks Christian in Westlake Village, very close to Agoura, where Deena Kastor, Ryan Wilson, Amy Skieresz and Bryan Dameworth went to high school.

Great Oaks is in Temecula, in SW Riverside County, in the Inland Empire, where I-15 and I-215 meet.

No, it was the california syndrome..

I am not seeing a lot of mileage shaming, especially considering how it has been done against other successful teams. In general, the mileage debate is a valid one, besides talent, mileage is the main determinant for current and future success. Whether the mileage is too little or too much its worth talking about. When you have a team consistently producing 2-3 stress factures a year and the kids rarely have successful college careers, etc., then the mileage is probably too high. Although, I would bet just as many low mileage kids struggle in college for the opposite reason kids coming from high mileage programs. I don't have anything against high mileage per se, it works for some kids and some programs, but personally I would rather err on the side of caution and leave something for future development. I would rather have a kid 10% undertrained than a kid 1% overtrained.

Btw, this is not about you, its just generally thoughts because what you are doing appears to be working so far.

I just think it is awesome... terrifically awesome, really... that the Great Oak Coach cares, and more than that, even seeks to improve. 99% of high school coaches totally TOTALLY suck. They know little. They can not inspire worth a damn. On top of all that, they act and speak as if they do know what they are talking about. Even worse, they actually think it! High School runners are so screwed... It's for the best if they go into a program knowing that despite whatever bluster their coaches provide, they don't know shit and care even less. So, it is up to the runners to overcome the hindrance that the coaches are.

In a few cases, like at Great Oak, the kids will see that the coach does care about them and the sport, and they will rightfully trust the coach. These kids have it good! The vast majority of the time, however, high school kids would be so much better off without any of the "coaches" there.

Looks like Spencer Dodds is eligible to compete, as of 9/25/14 that is.

I've talked to Soles before when we had a nationally ranked team. He was very helpful and honest.

I can tell that they have all the makings of a mega power - large numbers, affluent population, GREAT COACHING, parent support, etc.

They're willing to do more than the majority of schools across the nation and that is really what is happening here. I don't just mean more mileage (team averages of 50+ miles for girls will make a great team), but they're putting in more effort, too. Count on it.

Everyone is all in and that culture starts with the coach.

I'm also interested in hearing about the Garmin data. We use them and I've noticed some patterns regarding improvement related to base phase daily run pace, tempo run pace in and out of season, etc. But I know our trends. I'm interested in those from Great Oak.

One week later, both the boys and girls Great Oak teams won at Nike Pre Nationals. Earlier in the day, the girls varsity B team won at Dana Hills Invitational.

http://www.dyestat.com/gprofile.php?mgroup_id=44531&do=news&news_id=285930