Could Rudisha have done this?

The NYC track is not beat up in any way. It was in FANTASTIC shape the year rudisha ran fast on it. I've run on that track weekly.

Ventolin should be banned if nothing else but his arrogance.

That and posting opinions and declaring them fact. The one should be greatest ever for what they could have done not what they actually did.

bronx bumbler wrote:The NYC track is not beat up in any way. It was in FANTASTIC shape the year rudisha ran fast on it. I've run on that track weekly.

err...

you are dreaming

...the Mondo track surface at Icahn Stadium is badly worn. I've seen tracks in worse condition, but not tracks that were hosting a major international or even national competition. There has obviously been some patching done, as well as replacement of Lane 1, at least on the home straight

Frightened Inmate # 5 wrote:Haha right on cue.

Ever since Ventolin wrote this about the Mens Triple Jump in 2011 :

"taylor needs to find a mere 7cm in the next few years ( & fet right wind ) & he can have the wr

think about that, he is 7cm from wr ability..."

when in actual fact, he had just jumped 17.96, a full 33cm from the World Record, I knew most of his coulda woulda shoulda nonsense amounts to nothing more than the cretinous ramblings of someone unhinged from reality.

idiot

you clearly have no grasp of basic analysis or physics

edwards 18.29 with +1.3 at sea-level

taylor 17.96 with +0.1 at sea-level

here is some logic even your peabrain shoud be able to follow

a 2.0m/s wind offers ~ 0.1s for a 10.00 run, meaning

10.00 with +2.0 = ~ 10.10 basic

therefore a +2.0 wind is worth

~ 1.01 advantage

i hope i haven't lost you

now, this will probably go over your head :

any horizontal jump is helped by wind twice :

- once on runway

- 2nd time whilst trajecting thru air in 1 or 3 phases of either lj or tj respectively

therefore advantage of wind is ~ ratio^2 for horizontal jumps

- edwards : +1.3 wind ->

18.29 / ( 1 + ( 0.01 * (1.3/2.0) ) )^2 =

18.05

- taylor : +0.1 wind ->

17.96 / ( 1 + ( 0.01 * (0.1/2.0) ) )^2 =

17.94

see the difference for ballpark difference

then if you can, do the more accurate calculation using this to work out precise value for basic winds rather than 2m/s = 1%

use 10.2 or 10.3 for edwards if you like & 10.4 or 10.5 for taylor or juxtaposition or whatever you like as long as it's 10++ for both

Haha, this is freaking hilarious.

Ventolin, you do realise with your quadratic nonsense, you've just made my point for me, don't you !?

Remind me how far Christian Taylor is from Jonathan Edwards' world record will you......

Hint. It's NOT 7cm :-)

ukathleticscoach wrote:So why did not run 1:41 on a decent track, or 1:42, or 1:43

eh ?

if you are talking about Ryun, i doubt even you are dumb enough to realise he didn't run on a synthetic track in '67 let alone late-'67 when he didn't even run a 800/880

he also has said on record he was running easy in early/mid '67 just winning with a kick but got tired of this & fact that no one woud make any pace, in an era with generally few/no pacers

that's why he decided to run the mile wr solo, leading every mm for 3'51.1

In his recent races Ryun had been relaxing behind the leaders, surging to the front whenever he pleased and winning in times dictated by the early pacemakers. "I realized," he said, "that I wouldn't set any records doing that, because no one was going to knock himself out setting a record pace. So I decided to push myself."

...

When the time was announced, officials asked Ryun to jog a victory lap for the crowd. "You must really feel like jogging another lap," someone said. Ryun looked up with a small smile. "You know, that's the trouble. I do. I have too much left."

he also said he was a bad judge of pace, which is totally unsurprising for a 20y ole

Jim seemed to stalk Keino's rapid pace as easily as he had followed Bailey's slow one. "Keino knows he doesn't have the kick to finish with me," he explained, "so I expected him to try and open up a lead with a move like that. I felt loose, though, and it was no strain to keep up with him."

Kip maintained his pace through the third quarter, but the pressure wasn't bothering Ryun a bit; in fact, Jim was beginning to enjoy it. "It was the first time I've had anyone set a good pace for me since my 3:51.3 mile at Berkeley last summer," he said. "I like it that way, because I'm a very poor judge of pace when I have to set it myself."

he was basically begging for fast pacers from gun, but none existed for him over 800 apart from wade bell who ran 1'45.0 that year & was certainly not going to help him out as he was world number 1 on times & dreaming of gold himself in '68 if Ryun wasn't doubling

'therefore advantage of wind is ~ ratio^2 for horizontal jumps'

Garbage

I said a decent track not a sythnetic. A synthetic track is not worth 4 seconds over cinders or 6 seconds by your flawed calculations. Ryun could not have gone close to Coe over 800m.

I think someone in 1:39 shape would have found an 800m race

Whenever he posts, I think of the movie Spaceballs where one ape goes to the other, "Oh Sh*t. There goes the planet [thread]."

Positive Contribution wrote:

Ventolin should be banned if nothing else but his arrogance.

That and posting opinions and declaring them fact. The one should be greatest ever for what they could have done not what they actually did.

runnying wrote:

Whenever he posts, I think of the movie Spaceballs where one ape goes to the other, "Oh Sh*t. There goes the planet [thread]."

Positive Contribution wrote:

Ventolin should be banned if nothing else but his arrogance.

That and posting opinions and declaring them fact. The one should be greatest ever for what they could have done not what they actually did.

Wonders will never cease.

I think my past post shut him up!! He never responded.

JRianldi wrote:Hey peabrain

Rome 23.9

Doha 24.7

Pre 24.2

Monaco 24.0

Glascow 24.2

Zurich 24.3

*havent got time to YouTube every race.

These are the splits of the first non rabbit across the line and in all races the athlete was hot on the tail of your wabbit (able to draft). Splits look within your range to me.

fool

learn to read

i said

24-low/midfor pacer

& by implicaton, the elite 800 guy as to be immediately behind

try again

Frightened Inmate number 5 wrote:Haha, this is freaking hilarious

only for a peabrain with no ability to think

Ventolin, you do realise with your quadratic nonsense, you've just made my point for me, don't you !?

utter drivel you moron

i have given you a solid method of analysing wind/altitude factors for horizonal jumps

if it is beyond your numbskull, that's your problem

Remind me how far Christian Taylor is from Jonathan Edwards' world record will you......

Hint. It's NOT 7cm :-)

impress me

find edwards longest jump with wind +0.1 or worse

ukathleticscoach wrote:'therefore advantage of wind is ~ ratio^2 for horizontal jumps'

Garbage

idiot

impress me

what is your conversion method ???

don't dare say there isn't one because even you can't be that dumb

Ventolin--could you list Ryun's top 5 800 meter times (converted from 880 years is fine)?

ukathleticscoach wrote:I said a decent track not a sythnetic

go fetch a pristine dirt trck for him in late-'67 where he ran 1st race of meet on it

A synthetic track is not worth 4 seconds over cinders or 6 seconds by your flawed calculations

idiot

epstein says his research from consulting biomechanical experts says

1.5%

for presumed pristine dirt

your peabrain know better than biomechanical experts ???

Ryun could not have gone close to Coe over 800m

utter fool

nijel has run 1'41.73

a genuine uncontestable 1'41.73 & after rounds

anyone with a clue about the sport woud know a peak Ryun woud crushed nijel like a bug

I think someone in 1:39 shape would have found an 800m race

err...

why ???

no one cared about the 880 back then especially in US

it wasn't even given respect of it's own name but called "1/2-mile"

Ryun wasn't interested in 800 until trials in '68 & in whole period of '64 - '68 trials, he only ran 1 hard-effort 880 & that was when ill, with a prelim coupla hours before & serious -ve splits - & he tied the 800wr of it !!!

800 was a poor man's event back then, still probably is, & anyone with middle distance talent went for 1500/mile back then

at his peak in late-'67, Ryun ran 2 1500s, 2 races of 1 mile & finished with a 5k !!!

What a crock of sh*t.

No one takes your madness seriously.

Ryun wouldn't have lived with Amos.

Ryun's 440 pb ~ 46.9 relay

Amos's 400 pb ~ 44.6 relay.

Cue Vento now writing 1000 words to explain that Ryun's split was worth 2 secs faster and combusting while he does it.

Everyone else will read it and laugh.

ventolin^3 wrote:

......some quadratic drivel.......

impress me

find edwards longest jump with wind +0.1 or worse

Nah, can't be bothered to engage with the fringes of lunacy, but, for your enjoyment (courtesy of Flo'da Boy) :

Awesome.......poetry in motion........

That's sport. Not your dessicated theoretical equations.

serenity wrote:

What a crock of sh*t.

No one takes your madness seriously.

Ryun wouldn't have lived with Amos.

Ryun's 440 pb ~ 46.9 relay

Amos's 400 pb ~ 44.6 relay.

Cue Vento now writing 1000 words to explain that Ryun's split was worth 2 secs faster and combusting while he does it.

Everyone else will read it and laugh.

maybe you don't agree with ventolin on what ryun could run, but to list the numbers you did, with 0 context, in an attempt to make some sort of point, makes YOU look foolish

otter wrote:

On his best day do you think Rudisha could have matched Seb Coe on his best day?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0e1yaMIM08

Does anyone know the conditions of that track Coe ran on? I've always wondered that. It's hard to tell with the poor quality of the video. Also, it looked like it had tight turns and long straights.

Coe got bumped out in lane two with 300 to go but he had help for the first 400. Rudisha led his entire race.

I've always felt that Coe's 800 was the best middle distance performance of all time.

What do you think?

Of course Rudisha could have done this, and his 2012 Olympic front run in a WR is, on the face of it, statistically better than Coe's run.

However, Rudisha ran his time in 2012 when at his season peak, in the most important race of his life. Coe ran his 31 years earlier with no competition and on an inferior track in early season. How do the exploits of 800 runners in 1950 (31 years earlier) compare to Coe's time!?

You have to put each in historical context. When Rudisha won the Olympic title he was expected to win and ran his normal race, that gave him the best chance of winning. That's not a criticism, it's one of the greatest and bravest performances in T&F history, but an accurate analysis of his tactics. It was a 0.10 improvement on the WR.

Coe's 1:41.7 was the biggest jump forward in the event since Harbig in 1939.

At the time of Firenze, Coe was a whopping 1.71 secs faster than anyone else in history. No one in modern times has been that far ahead of his contemporaries in the 800m. It was a different era, when running fast times all season was not the name of the game, as it is nowadays. But despite this, at the time, 30 years ago, the average of Coe's top 7 times on the eve of the 1984 Olympics, was 1:43.42, faster than anyone else had run once at the time.

I had the opportunity of asking Coe about his Florence race in person in Dec 2012.

He confirmed that Konchellah wasn't hired as a rabbit, hence he had to run round him at 400m, and that it wasn't intended to be a WR attempt. He was hoping for a fast time in 1:43, with a view of attempting the WR in Oslo a month later. When I suggested that he could have run under 1:41 later that season had he taken several attempts with good pacing to the bell, he said, "I think sub 1:41 is pushing it a bit, but certainly 1: 41.2/1:41.3."

I then asked what he'd have been able to run on the latest mondo tracks, and he said, "a couple of tenths faster".

Ignore all the drivel from Ventolin and co that the track was short. He is always trying to demean Coe's performances, and when asked to provide evidence from others that call into question the length of the track, he is left floundering. It's a "normal" track, where the bends are longer than the straights. He does also run about 60m wide on the 3rd bend which cost him perhaps 0.2 in terms of a perfect race.

Here is a better version of the race ~

A look at the race will show that Coe takes c. 10.5 sec at the end of the first lap to run the home straight (as soon as the bend ends) to the bell. That's about 82m in distance. He then goes into the bend a few metres later. So the bends are certainly not short.

In fact a look at Rudisha's 1:41.09 WR in Berlin also clearly shows that he took more like 12.3 secs from the beginning of the straight to the finish line on the 2nd lap. Meaning the straights in Florence were shorter than the Berlin track, but the bends in Florence were longer than in Berlin. Running longer bends and shorter straights would actually put an athlete at a slight disadvantage.

So in summarising, YES, Rudisha could have done this 30 + years later. But Coe's Florence run also represents one of the greatest and most ground breaking performances in T&F history.