..
..
Totally agree Rojo. Let the punishment fit the crime.
Where was the lynch mob when he was applauded when he showed up for pre season?
And if society deems domestic violence a crime worthy of losing your ability to make a living, why don't we apply this punishment equally to cops and members of the military?
How many elevator tapes have NOT been picked up by TMZ??
LOGIC FAIL wrote:
Prisons aren't built to help people.
That was his point, genius.
rtettr wrote:
a two-game suspension for knocking out a woman? that was absurd. the key point you're missing is that the punishment meted out by the nfl did not fit the crime. if the initial punishment had been reasonable, the outcry wouldn't have been as big. the video itself highlighted the point that the initial suspension was a disgrace.
i would blame the nfl for not handling the situation from the start. they enabled the media frenzy as a result.
Understood and agreed.
I do not agree with a lifetime ban for a crime that didn't even involve jail time. I believe his only punishment within the judicial system was a counseling program which upon completion charges would be dropped.
The NFL will now ruin Ray's career to cover up their own blunder.
If you do the math, Ray Rice could have knocked out 7 fiancees and still played the last 2 games of the regular season. That is if the Ravens hadn't cut him.
rtettr wrote:
a two-game suspension for knocking out a woman? that was absurd.
Let's understand the reason for this or any NFL suspension.
It is about public relations. That's it.
They have a suspension policy about steroid use. But not because it gives a competitive advantage or that it can be harmful but because the league looks bad when the public finds out about drug use. So they suspend people for making the NFL look bad.
When the first video came out, people looked to the NFL.
They weighed public relations backlash and went with two games. And that had a mostly negative relations impact.
The second video made them look worse so they cut ties.
It is not about any justice or any punishment it is solely about how much it affects the marketing of their sport.
Any other discussion on this topic as it relates to the NFL is mis-directed.
Star wrote:
rtettr wrote:a two-game suspension for knocking out a woman? that was absurd.
Let's understand the reason for this or any NFL suspension.
It is about public relations. That's it.
They have a suspension policy about steroid use. But not because it gives a competitive advantage or that it can be harmful but because the league looks bad when the public finds out about drug use. So they suspend people for making the NFL look bad.
When the first video came out, people looked to the NFL.
They weighed public relations backlash and went with two games. And that had a mostly negative relations impact.
The second video made them look worse so they cut ties.
It is not about any justice or any punishment it is solely about how much it affects the marketing of their sport.
Any other discussion on this topic as it relates to the NFL is mis-directed.
the point still holds. the nfl, in giving rice two games, made an absurd calculation. and it got roasted for it. if the nfl comes up with a more reasonable suspension that the general public deems to be fair, the outcry wouldnt be would it is.
It's different for people in high-visibility occupations -- politicians, athletes, entertainers. They lose their jobs all the time because of things that involve little or no jail time but big PR backlash. The public backlash makes them liabilities.
So we agree.
He didn't get suspended for knocking out a woman.
He got suspended for the public's reaction to it.
If it happened without cameras and the NFL found out but the public didn't, there would have been no suspension.
rojo wrote:
As someone who recently moved to Baltimore, I'm very much into the Ray Rice situation.
A few comments.
The lynch mob mindset blows my mind. We all knew he knocked his girlfriend out. That should have been more than a 2 game suspension. But this is a guy from what I can tell had been in zero trouble before, whom the prosector let join a pre-trial diversion program, who has done a lot in town.
Now the video comes out and there is a lynch mob? I don't like the double jeopardy. Everyone - the NFL, the prosecutors and Ravens - had already made a punishment. Now they are totally changing it.
Don't misunderstand me, I'm not condoning what he did. One of the three rules my father gave me as a child was never to hit a woman. I remember that and would never consider it (I believe my mom actually tried to amend it and say something if it was being attacked i could).
But does anyone besides me think it's weird there is so much outrage over this crime? We're constantly told that there should be more women CEOs, a woman president, etc but the moment there is a fight between a man and a woman, society acts like it's 1820. I'm curious to what true feminists think about this.
Yes he's way bigger and way stronger. His actions are indefensible even if she was coming at him. But this is an assault case.
Others in the NFL have done worse stuff but since there is no video of it (crimes, fathering tons of children and not supporting them), there is zero outrage.
Compare Ray Rice to Brandon Marshall of the Bears:
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-03-14/sports/chi-brandon-marshalls-rap-sheet-20120314_1_brandon-marshall-rasheedah-watley-press-chargesBen Roethlisberger was accused of sexual assault twice. Yes, he wasn't convicted. But if the NFL is going to use the legal system's decision as the basis for its decisions, well then Ray Rice is in a pre-trial diversion program. He has married the woman as well.
It will be interesting to see what happens down the road. Here in town, they are trying to make it illegal for employers to ask on the initial job application if a person has been convicted of a crime. That can only be asked later in the process as they want to give people a chance for redemption after mistakes.
That type of think is in stark contrast to the lynch mob mindset on the national media.
100% agree.
Sorry you moved to Baltimore though. What in the world made you do that?
Les wrote:
It's different for people in high-visibility occupations -- politicians, athletes, entertainers. They lose their jobs all the time because of things that involve little or no jail time but big PR backlash. The public backlash makes them liabilities.
^This. Sorry, Ray Rice is a high profile multi-million dollar entertainer. Football is a game that is only important because people like to watch it. The NFL has an image to maintain (even if it is completely transparent) and stakeholders to appease. Sorry but this video does the NFL more damage than the verbal story. So they are forced to take action.
Is everyone so angry because they are forced to look at their beloved football for what it is? It is a lucrative and tightly controlled entertainment business.
The NFL is soft on domestic violence (and crime) because there is so much money involved, that is until they can't control the PR damage. No one should be surprised.
Has it occured to anyone that his gf committed a felony before she was knocked out by Rice? The law doesn't state that if a guy is a football star a woman can commit assault and battery on him. If this case went to trial, yes Rice would have likely been convicted of a felony. But so would she. Wonder why everyone is ignoring this part of it?
With all the outrage about bullying these days you'd think someone would point out that she seemed to be the instigator, the bully. Anyone ever consider why more and more girls in schools are becoming bullys? It use to be only boys. In recent years there's been a spike in girls being the bully. Gee, wonder why?
.!. BIH FP
rojo wrote:
The lynch mob mindset blows my mind...
Now the video comes out and there is a lynch mob? I don't like the double jeopardy. Everyone - the NFL, the prosecutors and Ravens - had already made a punishment. Now they are totally changing it.
You left out the public. They never had a chance to deliver a punishment. Had the NFL or Ravens' management not done anything the public would have done it on their own - there's no way the NFL could justify the negative economic impact by standing by a single woman beater.
The public owns the stadium, they pay the salaries, they have a stake that can't simply be brushed aside.
The "public" is not defined as Joe Six Pack who attends the games and will mutter amongst themselves that she had it coming to her. The Public includes wives, fiancées, girlfriends, daughters as well, push them around and the NFL is on the losing end of helmet to helmet contact or worse yet; an accidental hand to the head of the quarterback.
I think the public outcry has been brewing for a while and now they have their evidence - Ray Rice is doomed. As well he should be. Just because he's kicked out of the NFL, for all intents and purposes, doesn't mean that he can get a job doing something else.
I do agree with others who said that the woman needs to attend a diversion program as well. Not sure if she did.
Ooops wrote:
Has it occured to anyone that his gf committed a felony before she was knocked out by Rice? The law doesn't state that if a guy is a football star a woman can commit assault and battery on him. If this case went to trial, yes Rice would have likely been convicted of a felony. But so would she. Wonder why everyone is ignoring this part of it?
With all the outrage about bullying these days you'd think someone would point out that she seemed to be the instigator, the bully. Anyone ever consider why more and more girls in schools are becoming bullys? It use to be only boys. In recent years there's been a spike in girls being the bully. Gee, wonder why?
.!. BIH FP
Wow, I didn't realize Rice's wife played for the NFL. Well, she should be suspended, too!
No one is saying she is not at fault. She even publicly apologized for her role in the incident.
Ooops wrote:
Has it occured to anyone that his gf committed a felony before she was knocked out by Rice? The law doesn't state that if a guy is a football star a woman can commit assault and battery on him. If this case went to trial, yes Rice would have likely been convicted of a felony. But so would she. Wonder why everyone is ignoring this part of it?
My toddler hit me while throwing a fit last night. I should probably have him tried as an adult for felony assault. A hit's a hit, am I right?
abuse victim wrote:
Ooops wrote:Has it occured to anyone that his gf committed a felony before she was knocked out by Rice? The law doesn't state that if a guy is a football star a woman can commit assault and battery on him. If this case went to trial, yes Rice would have likely been convicted of a felony. But so would she. Wonder why everyone is ignoring this part of it?
My toddler hit me while throwing a fit last night. I should probably have him tried as an adult for felony assault. A hit's a hit, am I right?
No
Funny how no one mentions HER side of the story. Spoiler alert: she still loves him and is quite disappointed in both the punishment and attention this is receiving.
Stats Man wrote:
Stats Man wrote:Got any statistics on that?
Didn't think so.
Here's a hint for you: Regardless of whether you are trying to make a point, convince anyone of anything, or supporting a cause, when you talk out of your ass you do not make yourself more convincing or help whatever cause it is that you are trying to support.
Just figured you'd like to know.
Burden of proof rests on you.
abuse victim wrote:
Ooops wrote:Has it occured to anyone that his gf committed a felony before she was knocked out by Rice? The law doesn't state that if a guy is a football star a woman can commit assault and battery on him. If this case went to trial, yes Rice would have likely been convicted of a felony. But so would she. Wonder why everyone is ignoring this part of it?
My toddler hit me while throwing a fit last night. I should probably have him tried as an adult for felony assault. A hit's a hit, am I right?
You sound about as smart as your toddler.
How about this?
A guy that weighed 40 lbs less than me hit me. Is it OK that I defend myself and hit him back?
rojo wrote:
As someone who recently moved to Baltimore, I'm very much into the Ray Rice situation.
A few comments.
The lynch mob mindset blows my mind. We all knew he knocked his girlfriend out. That should have been more than a 2 game suspension. But this is a guy from what I can tell had been in zero trouble before, whom the prosector let join a pre-trial diversion program, who has done a lot in town.
Now the video comes out and there is a lynch mob? I don't like the double jeopardy. Everyone - the NFL, the prosecutors and Ravens - had already made a punishment. Now they are totally changing it.
I saw the initial video of him dragging her and was surprised at the light suspension. (The lack of a felony conviction is orders of magnitude more appalling.) Seeing the punch was still shocking to me, and maybe others felt the same way. I'd never seen anyone of that size swing full out and connect with a much weaker person who didn't expect it. He absolutely creamed her unexpectedly. KO"s in boxing and other sports don't look like that.
The violence of that punch was astounding on its own, even more so after hearing the explanation from the NFL, his lawyer and her that the video showed she somehow provoked that kind of reaction. There was no element of self defense for Ray Rice as previously implied. Frankly, I think he could have killed her.
Maybe it'll mark a turning point for the NFL and the fans. If the NFL was smart (and they don't appear to be), the guy from the Panthers would be suspended indefinitely pending his appeal. They'd revisit the status of people you mentioned in that article and many others and ask themselves some hard questions. Ultimately though, it'll come down to money as mentioned above-Pittsburgh and their creepy QB are playing the Ravens this Thursday. Will you be watching? If we continue watching, the criminals not caught on tape will still be out there playing.