"The Drug Cheat Mary Slaney"

noce wrote:

letsfactualize.com wrote:

The drug cheat Mary Slaney was indeed a drug cheat. What's the problem?

The problem is that the brojos do not consistently apply this label to athletes who have tested positive, which makes them appear to be hypocrites who care more about smearing one particular athlete. Justin Gatlin is "Drug Cheat Justin Gatlin". Period. His drug cheating should never be forgotten.

Should read. "....drug cheats Slaney and Gaitlin...." There, now is everybody happy? I for one, applaud this site for calling attention to these cheats.

Thanks to the OP for posting this. despite all the subsequent complications, the point is pretty straightforward: if one sanctioned athlete is always going to be described as a "drug cheat," why not do that with all sanctioned athletes they write about? Whatever authority the brothers Johnson might have as critics of and advocates for this sport is undermined by their own obvious double-standards. Too bad, as I appreciate a lot of their analysis of the sport.

I will drink to that wrote:

Here is what bothered me about the Slaney case. With Tyson Gay, there was the Epstein connection. Marion Jones and Regina Jacobs were linked to Balco. Eventually with drug cheats, a supplier is revealed, or a trainer squeals and their story is eventually supported by some evidence. Think A-Rod, Armstrong, Braun. From what I can remember, no one ever squealed on Slaney, she wasn't linked to a supplier, and no one claimed they supplied her with the testosterone. Maybe I'm not remembering that correctly, but did any other evidence - besides the positive tests of course - come to light that she was indeed cheating?

Just wondering...

Dick Brown and the doping program at AW has been pretty well discussed on these boards. Use the search function.

Is it possible for a clean athlete to beat a doper?

Yes.

Lynn Jennings outkicked Slaney at the '96 Trials in the 5000 and Jennings was clean her entire career.

Ask Libbie Johnson who placed fourth in that 5k Trials race how she feels about giving Slaney a pass as a drug cheat. Johnson was kept off the team by the lengthy and drawn out process of Slaney's postiive test. Denied an Olympic berth and Slaney ran the in the '96 Olympics as a dirty athlete.

Is it possible for a clean athlete to medal at the Olympics?

Yes.

It's entirely true that Slaney was dirty in '96. It's not a matter of speculation or conjecture. She tested positive at the Trials and her epitestosterone were through the roof. She was taking DHEA and got caught.

She's a drug cheat.

I'm talking about the T/E test. She wasn't being coached by Dick Brown in 1996, and Athletics West no longer existed. Who provided her with testosterone, who injected her with it, and where did the injections take place? Who knows, and who saw it?

Dingler wrote:

I will drink to that wrote:

Here is what bothered me about the Slaney case. With Tyson Gay, there was the Epstein connection. Marion Jones and Regina Jacobs were linked to Balco. Eventually with drug cheats, a supplier is revealed, or a trainer squeals and their story is eventually supported by some evidence. Think A-Rod, Armstrong, Braun. From what I can remember, no one ever squealed on Slaney, she wasn't linked to a supplier, and no one claimed they supplied her with the testosterone. Maybe I'm not remembering that correctly, but did any other evidence - besides the positive tests of course - come to light that she was indeed cheating?

Just wondering...

Dick Brown and the doping program at AW has been pretty well discussed on these boards. Use the search function.

Hickster wrote:

Using your name and naming names would be a bit more credible.

Frankly i'm sure she wasnt doping at 14 when she faced the Russians and those of us around for the Cold War didnt care in 1983 either. The times have changed. I

Didn't care?

The athletes who competed cleanly didn't care?

Every American record set from 800 to 10k and nobody cared?

I guess you didn't care - and still don't care, from the sounds of it.

I assure you many people cared, and still care, and that's undeniable.

Ok. Please give me the list of clean riders from the Tour who won. And please give me the list of the clean HR hitters who hit more HRs than Bonds, Sosa et al. While you're at it, which clean runners beat Ramzi? Yes, if Simpson or any of those NOP athletes were to beat doping athletes, it's safe to say that they are doping. But yes, keep telling yourself that Alberto doesn't top them off. Whatever helps you sleep at night buddy.

Hickster wrote:

Frankly i'm sure she wasnt doping at 14 when she faced the Russians and those of us around for the Cold War didnt care in 1983 either. The times have changed. I

I'm sure that Mary wasn't doping when she was 14. Sure that LA wasn't doping at 14. Marion Jones too. And all others. That's not the point.

The OP's post is a long overdue one. Some of the discussion on this thread, as well as the original post, contains a level of professionalism that has been sorely lacking on the forum. I greatly appreciate it.

Watching MDS's 1983 1500 World Championship home stretch finish was one of my favorite television-viewing moments. Watching it again on Youtube reminds me why. I have personally grown to not like MDS, but that is besides the point. In her prime, she was an awesome competitor. Because you don't like someone is a poor reason to belittle their accomplishments.

We Had the Same Coach wrote:

The OP's post is a long overdue one. Some of the discussion on this thread, as well as the original post, contains a level of professionalism that has been sorely lacking on the forum. I greatly appreciate it.

Watching MDS's 1983 1500 World Championship home stretch finish was one of my favorite television-viewing moments. Watching it again on Youtube reminds me why. I have personally grown to not like MDS, but that is besides the point. In her prime, she was an awesome competitor. Because you don't like someone is a poor reason to belittle their accomplishments.

Yeah, and that Barry Bonds sure could hit homers...

And wasn't Ben Johnson exciting! Man, what a start he had!

And Regina Jacobs - didn't she run fantastically well as an older athlete!!! So inspiring!!!

In their prime, they were awesome competitors. They would easily outdistance their opponents - especially the clean ones.

Pity they don't treat Gatlin the same

'http://www.letsrun.com/news/2014/09/justin-gatlin-runs-9-7719-71-pull-greatest-single-day-100200-double-history'

No mention of doping!

We Had the Same Coach wrote:

The OP's post is a long overdue one. Some of the discussion on this thread, as well as the original post, contains a level of professionalism that has been sorely lacking on the forum. I greatly appreciate it.

Watching MDS's 1983 1500 World Championship home stretch finish was one of my favorite television-viewing moments. Watching it again on Youtube reminds me why. I have personally grown to not like MDS, but that is besides the point. In her prime, she was an awesome competitor. Because you don't like someone is a poor reason to belittle their accomplishments.

So Baumann didn't get caught til later, do you rewatch his Olympic win and cheer for him too?

There was only one prominent AW coach around this time.

Have to agree. In 1983 everyone (general public) loved Mary and wanted to see our boys/girls beat the Russians. Was that morally correct? Of course not.

But unless you are paying off your mortgage and turning your house over to the native american's who used to own the land and emptying your savings account to pay reparations to African Americans your horror at someone possibly doping in 1983 to compete against likely dopers just seems a little... weak?

Projecting current moral sensibilities back in time is always tough.

There was only one prominent AW coach around this time.[/quote]

So you're saying that Brown, while running a doping program was naming names? Highly doubt that.

UP wrote:

There was only one prominent AW coach around this time.

So you're saying that Brown, while running a doping program was naming names? Highly doubt that.[/quote]

Probably not Jack Daniels either. Daniels and Brown worked close together.

The coach that is being alluded to is probably Sevene. He was the one who uncovered Dick Brown's secret slush account that documented "injection, injection, injection." After Sev complained to his bosses the ledger continued on only the entries now said "adjustment, adjustment, adjustment."

If you want to know what really went down you probably need to ask Ron Tabb, although the divorce papers probably prevent him from talking.

My personal opinion is that Mary was dirty in the 80s, got caught in the 90s and was banned from track. She served her time. However, this scarlet letter thing is a bit overboard. I'm sure the brojos must have a cheating scandal in their own history. Let it go.

No mention of doping? A simple search on "doping" shows it mentioned 4 times. Once for Asafa Powell, and the other 3 for Gatlin. Here are the quotes:"Prior to today, Gatlin’s fastest time since returning from his doping ban was ...""Quick Thought #2: Gatlin occupies a strange space in the sport right now.He’s clearly the best runner in track and field’s marquee event, but he wasn’t invited to compete in three major races because of his history of doping. He’s running better than ever at age 32 — and again, he missed four years of competition because of his doping ban — but fans don’t know whether to be amazed or suspicious."

ukathleticscoach wrote:

Pity they don't treat Gatlin the same

'http://www.letsrun.com/news/2014/09/justin-gatlin-runs-9-7719-71-pull-greatest-single-day-100200-double-history'

No mention of doping!