It was not reported that way when it happened nor was there any evidence of said training in BTFDR.
That is equally compelling evidence.
Jesus is also said to have walked on water but not during the time period when he was alive.
It was not reported that way when it happened nor was there any evidence of said training in BTFDR.
That is equally compelling evidence.
Jesus is also said to have walked on water but not during the time period when he was alive.
Straw M Thoroughman wrote:
It was not reported that way when it happened nor was there any evidence of said training in BTFDR.
That is equally compelling evidence.
Jesus is also said to have walked on water but not during the time period when he was alive.
Jesus is doing a great job on my yard work right now.
LA Fitness wrote:
Straw M Thoroughman wrote:It was not reported that way when it happened nor was there any evidence of said training in BTFDR.
That is equally compelling evidence.
Jesus is also said to have walked on water but not during the time period when he was alive.
Jesus is doing a great job on my yard work right now.
Maybe so but I bet he's not standing on the center of the pool while he's trimming the hedge.
Straw M Thoroughman wrote:
LA Fitness wrote:Jesus is doing a great job on my yard work right now.
Maybe so but I bet he's not standing on the center of the pool while he's trimming the hedge.
For an extra $25, I imagine he'd find a way.
Yes. Big Styrofoam crocs.
reader of the forums wrote:
fvcking imbecile
fvck off
Hi Ventolin!
Straw M Thoroughman wrote:
reader of the forums wrote:clueless
"As Seb approached his peak, he was able to run at high speed with very short rest periods and one particular set became his personal measure of readiness for top-class competition. With that set of six or eight 300m intervals, each in around 36 to 38 seconds with only 45 seconds recovery between the runs, we also used a similar session of four 400m runs in 51 to 52 seconds with 45 to 60 seconds rest."
Page 116 of Winning Running by Peter Coe
Gary Cohen: What were some of your favorite training sessions as fall practice began and during the early and mid-season? What did you do to combat the summer heat and runner fatigue and then the fall cold spells?
Joe Newton: One of my favorites is one that Sebastian Coe liked to do – eight times 300 meters with a 100 meter jog plus a little rest. Then the ninth 300 meters is all out. Seb did that workout three times here at York when he was getting ready for the 1984 Olympics. It seemed like he was always doing it on a Sunday, church bells were ringing and it was hotter than hell. He wanted to do it when it was hot because L.A. was going to be hot. The first time he averaged 41.5 and did the last one in 39.5. The second time he averaged about 39.5 and finished with a 37.6. The last time he averaged 37.5 and ran the last one in 35.9. I remember that day he got done and said, ‘I’m fit.’
The legends grow with time and you believe them. You probably weren't even born when this happened.
Remember Coe had already done a 1:43 before he did this supposed training.
He would have won the 800 in 1:39 if he actually improved that much over three workouts.
None of his reported workouts when he was actually competing were so embellished.
They keep getting better with the re-telling.
Newton is a fawning fanboy.
Here are some workouts Coe did that were documented at the time he was running, which would tend to support what 'Reader of the Forums' has found as evidence.
1) Article/interview in L'Equipe magazine (19.12.1981) with Robert Pariente: -
translated from French - 2 sets of 3 x 300m (20 secs rest between reps) in 36-37 secs, with 5 mins between sets.
2) From "Sebastian Coe: Coming Back" published in 1984: - " After I'd been there (Chicago) a week, working hard in high temperatures, I had the first indication that things were going well, with a series of 20 x 200m, the first 10 with 25 secs recovery, the second 10 with 35 to 40 seconds recovery. The times were mainly around 26 seconds, but the last one was 22.5, against a personal best ever of 21.7 (from 1981)"
It ten goes on to explain that his 1:43 in Oslo was not indicative of him already being in great shape prior to LA. At the time he said in an interview post race in Oslo, that he was in about 70 -75%....."I'd not been able to produce such high quality at the end of a series since 1981. Throughout my career I've never had difficulty running the occasional one -off race with speed, irrespective of training circumstances." (P.93)
3) Interview with Mel Watman in Athletics Weekly (Dec 7th 1985): -
'Seb can usually gauge with some accuracy when he is ready to run at his very best....."In training sessions the 300m is a very good yardstick, particularly if I can stick 8 or 10 of them together with a fairly brisk 100m jog recovery. Before the Olympics last year I was running 39s and 40s, the 100m jog recovery dropping down to about 20 seconds, and trying to rattle through the last one in 37 and bits, which to me is a good indication I'm in reasonable shape." That would back up as an 'average' of the 3 sessions Newton claims he saw and timed.
'Other training workouts include 1200m repetitions, sometimes in as fast as 2:52/2:53....."and it's still pretty tasty to go out and run 15 or 20 quarters in 61, even with a minute or jog 200m recovery."
No Deano, it doesn't back up what he's saying.
Your final sentence has also been virtually doubled from the original quote, when Coe was contemplating a move to 5000m. The number was closer to 10 in comparison to the 12 and a half laps of the 5.
Remember I was a fan back in the day as well. No need to make things bigger and better after the fact.
Straw M Thoroughman wrote:
No Deano, it doesn't back up what he's saying.
Your final sentence has also been virtually doubled from the original quote, when Coe was contemplating a move to 5000m. The number was closer to 10 in comparison to the 12 and a half laps of the 5.
Remember I was a fan back in the day as well. No need to make things bigger and better after the fact.
No, I have typed the EXACT words Coe is quoted as saying in an interview in Athletics Weekly. I haven't doubled any number, and I've given a precise reference to where the information cam from. This was the original article/interview from late 1985. Where is this "original quote" which states 10?
From "Training Distance Runners" by Martin and Coe, p244-5, within the last 4 weeks of training prior to 1984 Olympics.
week1
fri- 30x 200m @27/28
sat- 2x 3x 300m @39, with 3' recoveries and 9' between sets
week2
mon- 6x 800m @2:00, with 3' recoveries
wed- 6x 300m @ 41, with 3' recoveries
thu- 20x 200m @27/28
week3
wed- 6x 400m @51/52 with 5' recoveries
fri- 6x 300m @38/39, with 3' recoveries
week4
mon- 6x 300m @38/39, with 2' recoveries
tue- 10x 200m @27, with 2' recoveries
wed- 3x 400m @52/51/51
sat- heat #1 of 800m
I read the article, and without going through the thread to see what most the fighting is about, I'll hazard a guess that it relates to the claim about 20 times 200 meters in 25-26 with 35 to 40 seconds' rest.
4K worth of work at 800-meter pace, with a work-to-rest ratio of no less than 1 to 1.5, seems boggling to me. An average of 27 seconds, with a rolling start and throwing out the tenths, sounds far more plausible, as this would be more like 20 times 200 meters at 27.5 to 28 -- about a second quicker per 200 than Coe's mile race pace -- with a 100-meter jog.
The latter session is remarkable, but I've seen versions of it done. The former is in a different galaxy altogether.
J.R. wrote:
From "Training Distance Runners" by Martin and Coe, p244-5, within the last 4 weeks of training prior to 1984 Olympics.
week1
fri- 30x 200m @27/28
sat- 2x 3x 300m @39, with 3' recoveries and 9' between sets
week2
mon- 6x 800m @2:00, with 3' recoveries
wed- 6x 300m @ 41, with 3' recoveries
thu- 20x 200m @27/28
week3
wed- 6x 400m @51/52 with 5' recoveries
fri- 6x 300m @38/39, with 3' recoveries
week4
mon- 6x 300m @38/39, with 2' recoveries
tue- 10x 200m @27, with 2' recoveries
wed- 3x 400m @52/51/51
sat- heat #1 of 800m
I don't have that book, but the recoveries seem very conservative, especially 3 mins between the 300s.
In Peter Coe's book, "Winning Running: Successful 800m & 1500m Racing and Training" he states (on P,87), " A favourite session of Seb Coe was running 6 to eight 300m runs with all the intervals around 36 to 38 seconds- with one or two at around 35 or even 34 secs - and the recovery not exceeding 45 secs. He considered this to be his acid test of readiness for major competition, to be reached before the correct tapering -off period commenced to allow major events and titles to be run when fully recovered and fresh."
This would appear to back up Coe junior's comments in the L'Equipe article and the ones in the AW interview from '85. If either Coe was out to embellish, it seems strange that they didn't do so across the board! Perhaps the 3 then 2 min recoveries mentioned in the 6 x 300m sessions, were between the 2 sets of 3 apiece. So he did 3 in 38/39 with 30 to 40 secs between, then had a 2 minute rest, then repeated the 3 in 38/39 with 30 secs rest between each, going all out on the last one in 36/37!?
Deanouk wrote:
Straw M Thoroughman wrote:No Deano, it doesn't back up what he's saying.
Your final sentence has also been virtually doubled from the original quote, when Coe was contemplating a move to 5000m. The number was closer to 10 in comparison to the 12 and a half laps of the 5.
Remember I was a fan back in the day as well. No need to make things bigger and better after the fact.
No, I have typed the EXACT words Coe is quoted as saying in an interview in Athletics Weekly. I haven't doubled any number, and I've given a precise reference to where the information cam from. This was the original article/interview from late 1985. Where is this "original quote" which states 10?
Interview from the same year in probably RW or T&F News. He even mentioned stringing them together and carrying on for another two and a half laps. Still 15-20 is not a very precise number.
Don't get carried away like ventolin.
He does it with Ryun's races, you don't have to do it with Coe's training.
drivel
kid
how many times does your peabreain need to be told that coe was in '84
~ 1'42-mid/high / 3'29-flat/low
not in same class ss cruz in incredble run in koln
nor
aouita :
36.1
finish in 3'34.8
which wouda smashed coe
Coe did not run those times in '84. I checked.
I also checked and Ryun did not run 1:39 and 3:24.
Straw M Thoroughman wrote:Coe did not run those times in '84. I checked
that was his worth
i watched races live on tv
I also checked and Ryun did not run 1:39 and 3:24.
get a brain
this is on a '70s synthetic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUsEuv3Debs1'39.9 / 3'24.2
How many people on this thread have actually tried to run any I of these sessions listed? I ran 1:47/3:40 and have coached a kid to run 1:44.40 so I have a very good understanding of what is possible and what is not. Plus I watched Coe run a session of 10x300m with 100 jog (quickest rec was 50.7 and he averaged 41.2 in racing flats, with the last rep in 38.4) in 1990 as he was getting ready for Comm Games. I couple this with the sessions I did with Kim McDonalds group in the late 90's - a group that had a few WR holders.
I think some of the recoveries between reps have been slightly exaggerated. Newtons account of the workouts sound accurate to me and would be very similar to what I would give my athlete (at a slightly slower pace).
Coe was an amazing athlete who is still #3 all time, so at the end of the day, that speaks for itself, so let's not dwell on his workout too much. Coe took almost 2 sec of the previous WR, so until someone runs 1:39.0 - he still the greatest. Last person to drop the WR by that much was Lon Myers who took the WR from 1:57 1/2 down to 1:55 2/5 in 1885
I remember having dinner with Wilson Kipketer in 1996 (sorry to name dropped) and I kept asking him about his training and all he would say is that training must remain a secret - which I think the Coe's always did. They gave snippets of what they did, but never gave away the full blueprint...nor should they.
ventolin^3 wrote:
drivel
kid
how many times does your peabreain need to be told that coe was in '84
~ 1'42-mid/high / 3'29-flat/low
not in same class ss cruz in incredble run in koln
nor
aouita :
36.1
finish in 3'34.8
which wouda smashed coe
You are an utter clown. You've been saying on these boards for years that Aouita's 36.1 is a nonsense, whenever it is brought up re. Ryun's Dusseldorf run. Now you quote it to put down someone else's comments. Convenient that.
You do it all the time. You are irrational and hypercritical. Either accept Aouita's 36.1 as legit and thus better than Ryun's closing split or deny it is accurate. You conveniently straddle both opposing arguments and drop down on the side that is convenient at the time. You are what is known as, 'an unreliable witness.'
Welsh Wizard wrote:You are an utter clown
moron
clueless as usual
You've been saying on these boards for years that Aouita's 36.1 is a nonsense, whenever it is brought up re. Ryun's Dusseldorf run.
idiot
aouita's run has no splits mentioned apart from a 36.1 in a 3'34.8
no last lap split
no preceding splits
your peabrain can't seem to think
we now have souly, a known 3'29.5 guy finishing with a 36.8 in a 3'48
aouita in '84 had a nominal 3'31.5pb with claimed 36.1 in a 3'34.8
that woud imply aouita was in 1/2 dozen secs better shape than souly over 1500 in '84
Now you quote it to put down someone else's comments. Convenient that
no
because the fool can't provide a bottom line
irrelevant what training was, it's relevant what limits were
his limit in '84 was
~ 1.42-mid/high , 3'29-flat/low
You do it all the time. You are irrational and hypercritical
nonsense
i want absolute potential
Either accept Aouita's 36.1 as legit and thus better than Ryun's closing split or deny it is accurate
i don't accept aouita's finish
impress me
use your peabrain & tell me what flat-out 1500 shape a 36.1 finish in a 3'34.8 -> for 1500 & also even 800 ???
You conveniently straddle both opposing arguments and drop down on the side that is convenient at the time. You are what is known as, 'an unreliable witness.'
fool
tell me what 36.1 finish in 3'34.8 -> for flat-out 1500 or 800 ???
then discuss if it is a credible clocking
jjjjjjjjj wrote:
Very well-written article, giving a sense of urgency to Coe's buildup. Coe's reaction to the press after his win, however, showed that he ran on pure hate. The magnanimous thing to do there was just to celebrate. The press would have to eat its words without him saying anything.
Oh, he celebrated plenty.
That was a very few seconds of time in the grand scheme of things; the British press, as was well learned in the phone hacking scandal, are flooded with POS.