It makes me mad that a great man like Rudisha has to humble himself to a hack runner who is obviously doped beyond the gills (along with Olivier). Makloufi jumps out like sore thumb because of his similarity to Ramzi, but Amos gets a bye because he is a poor black African.
The Dingo wrote:I'm not a doctor or professor or anything
clearly
but I'm confident in saying that a short track would benefit a non-elite just as much as it would an elite
because a 1'50 guy running 1'49-low woud never be noticed for improvement
i'm talking ~ 1m short/lap, 0.5m on each bend
i'm sure you think rieti which has had a meet for ~ 40y is totally 400m/lap whereas firenze meet which died in mid-'80s
( why ?
maybe short track found out ???
i never heard of firenze meet again after mid-'80s until millenium )
before rebirth in totally new form in '00s was unimpeachable ???
Why do we even bother talking about this?
because it was an unknown meet to any grown fan back in '81
i thought it was a joke when newscaster said
"florence" ???
You're so incredibly stubborn and nothing will change your opinion
no
2 non-italian surveyors in '81 certifying it with posted diagrams with all measurements included
yet you can't PROVE anything
i don't have to prove anything when i have seen 100s of tracks on tv/satellite in my life & saying i'm shocked at
mickey-mouse size
of firenze
This is a completely pointless debate
utter drivel
the legitimacy of firenze is of huge importance
cruz & his coach have interest, as latter stated in '84
Cello Biafra wrote:
lol, "frog blender" puts it perfectly. Cheserek and Alfred Kipketer are prone to the same thing.
Yeah. Don't run like those guys who easily beat everyone else. They're doing it wrong.
Just because he beats people doesn't mean his technique is better. For all you know his technique could be the only thing stopping him from breaking the WR. You could teach Amos a thing or two about technique at a school sports day. By contrast, Rudisha's technique is exemplary, the guy looks so graceful and effortless running at sub 50 second 400m pace. Has anyone here ever managed that?
Going back to the OP's point, IMO he's not quite in the same league as Rudisha when both are on top form, and Rudisha is the only guy who'll break that WR in the next few seasons.
You're such a c**k!
You use words like, "maybe" and "likely" short because you don't have a clue.
How can you say the Florence track looked "mickey mouse" in size and then say it was probably 1m short? You're telling me that you can look at a track on a tv and tell it is exactly 1m short! Moron.
Then you offer 3 pbs amongst all the hundreds of athletes that ran there as evidence that it was short. Utter drivel.
Aouita went on to run within a second of his Firenze time in an Olympic final later that year and run much faster several times later in his career. So his 13:04 only proves he was a good 5k runner. It was backed up later the same year.
As for Sabia, it was his best ever season and he had already set a 500m WR on May 26th of 1:00.08 and a 400 pb of 45.73 just 4 days before Firenze. He was also drafted to 700m in that Firenze race by Druppers.
An 800 guy in 45.7/1:00.0 form should easily be able to run a 1:43.8, or were the tracks he set his 400 and 500 bests also short? Sabia got injured before LA and had lots of injury problems for the rest of his career.
So all you have given is 2 athletes with career bests set on the track in 2 different years. That's overwhelming evidence to suggest it is a short track!
LMAO. Loser.
ventolin^3 wrote:
the legitimacy of firenze is of huge importance
cruz & his coach have interest, as latter stated in '84
No moron. The issue Cruz and coach had about Coe's run was the faulty timing, which was replaced with a photo cell reading that IAAF were happy with.
They never mentioned anything as ridiculous as it being a short track. Only an idiot would think that!
If Cruz really thought it was short then he should have gone there in 85 and used it to his advantage. He didn't because it wasn't short.
Loot wrote:
Great runner, but not sure if he has the first lap speed to pull it off. He's a pack runner and a kicker. That's his forte. WR in the 8 needs to be a front runner like Rudisha.
What makes you say that? Many WRs have come from guys with fast finishes.
Bob Stitchmo wrote:
Coe a pack runner and a kicker?! Think you have him mixed up with Steve Ovett. Yes Coe did win races not leading into the final 120m but was ALWAYS at his best setting his own pace out front - the original and probably still the greatest front running gangbuster ever.
You think Nijel Amos has excellent form huh? Is it the awkward shuffle at cruising speed or the arms and legs everywhere 'frog in blender' up the home straight that leads you to that conclusion?
Please, if you would like a crash course on excellent form youtube Wilson Kipketer, Coe or even David Rudisha.
Alfred Kipketer? Why is his name even bought up here.
You've been watching too many of his WR attempts on Youtube. Coe was a kicker who was also able to go out and outrun people at times.
Take a look:
European Champs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCEYmHcs2so1980 Olympics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKvbzPgYwbk1984 Olympics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddrxCe3ZOOM1984 Zurich (Kicking from the front)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOVrht9WIvE1979 Coe get s involved in a fall then runs 51.7 last 400m to win
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEU5XSeJ7mcOne of the best kickers ever. Do your homework.
Sebastian Coe was not really a kicker? Just because you are kicking from the front, does not mean you aren't a kicker.
Coe was a kicker.. in fact one of the best ever.
ISBN wrote:You're such a c**k!
more rubbish
You use words like, "maybe" and "likely" short because you don't have a clue
idiot
it's because firenze track disappeared by mid-'80s so evidence is gone
How can you say the Florence track looked "mickey mouse" in size and then say it was probably 1m short?
learn to read
1m short on each curve for a 398m track
that's what visual inspection of vid & time run by ambitious elites indicates
You're telling me that you can look at a track on a tv and tell it is exactly 1m short! Moron
idiot
i've seen enough tracks to know when i'm looking at a mickey-mouse size track
fireze looked a joke track
Then you offer 3 pbs amongst all the hundreds of athletes that ran there as evidence that it was short. Utter drivel
rubbish
as usual you can't read
i said "ambitious elites" not the usual 1'50/3'40 rubbish which usually ran at that meet
Aouita went on to run within a second of his Firenze time in an Olympic final later that year and run much faster several times later in his career
fool
he had never run a serious 5k in his life before firenze & was considered a 1500/800 guy entering '84
no serious fan expected better than 13'15
he ran an incredible 13'04 with little pacing help
the games 5k he was paced until 4800m
it nowhere near compares with firenze run
as for faster 5k times later in career, idiot, he trained fully for 5k in '85 onwards
in '84 he trained for 1500 & ran that incredible firenze 5k off it
So his 13:04 only proves he was a good 5k runner
nonsense
he was consided a 1500 guy when lining up for firenze
It was backed up later the same year
clueless
he was drafted until middle of last lap in games
he had nowere near that help in firenze
As for Sabia, it was his best ever season and he had already set a 500m WR on May 26th of 1:00.08 and a 400 pb of 45.73 just 4 days before Firenze
more rubbish
that only shows he was a quickish 400 guy with good enough enurance to hang onto a good 500 time
it no way translates to 800 potential
as for 800
he ran a 1'45.35pb in torino just 11/7 before !
he smashed this down to 1'43.88 on the "magical" firenze track
He was also drafted to 700m in that Firenze race by Druppers
no
he kicked past him by 600
An 800 guy in 45.7/1:00.0 form should easily be able to run a 1:43.8
utter drivel
a 400/500 tells you nothing about 800 potential
or were the tracks he set his 400 and 500 bests also short?
more rubbish
he was in same shape 11/7 before in torino & coud only manage a 1'45.35pb
soon as he got to firenze he demolished this to 1'43.88 !!!
Sabia got injured before LA
utter drivel
there was no injury
he coud only run 1'44.5 in that games final on a legit track & he'd run 1'44.9 just 2/7 earlier in semi !
no injured guy couda done that you fool
and had lots of injury problems for the rest of his career
i don't care about rest of his career
i'm interested only in firenze year
that year he smashed his pb down from 1'45.3 to 1'43.8 on short firenze
So all you have given is 2 athletes with career bests set on the track in 2 different years
rubbish
then we have caballo who everyone thought was finished in '84
he turns up & runs 1'44.8!
in season peak race of zurich he coud only run 1'45.6 in a superfast race of cruz 1'42.3
"magic" of firenze again
That's overwhelming evidence to suggest it is a short track!
plenty damn evidence of short track
LMAO. Loser
fool
once again your peabrain offers nothing to contest argument of short firenze
Ventolin, could you explain how a short track affects pro track runners differently from amateurs?
ISBN wrote:No moron
idiot
clueless again
The issue Cruz and coach had about Coe's run was the faulty timing
he only complained about timing not the track length which he woudn’t have dared speaking out about back then
now it is being questioned like rieti
which was replaced with a photo cell reading that IAAF were happy with
cruz team weren’t & many others aren’t
iaaf accepted anything as long as “auto” was claimed
They never mentioned anything as ridiculous as it being a short track
fool
no one was going to complain about short track whilst coe was still active
Only an idiot would think that!
only an idiot takes everything at face-value & questions nothing
plenty of evidence for short firenze
If Cruz really thought it was short then he should have gone there in 85 and used it to his advantage
nonsense
he was past his peak by ’85 & even short track of firenze woudn’t have got him < 1’42
He didn't because it wasn't short
drivel
the guy had class & ran only on legit tracks
he didn’t want to run on a short track
ventolin^3 wrote:
he had never run a serious 5k in his life before firenze & was considered a 1500/800 guy entering '84
no serious fan expected better than 13'15
No, Aouita was training for 1500 and 5000 leading into 1984. That's why he ran it in the Olympics, duh! Why would he run 2 rounds of an event he didn't train for?
ventolin^3 wrote:
He was also drafted to 700m in that Firenze race by Druppersno
he kicked past him by 600
in your peabrain offers nothing to contest argument of short firenze
I thought you arrogantly claim to have watched ALL elite 800s/1500s since the 70's? Well clearly not. ISBN is absolutely correct, Sabia was drafted most of the way and only went past Druppers at 700m NOT BY 600m as you FALSELY claim. You talk drivel and make up things as you go along.
You can see for yourself here, fool: -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BerZf7MRHPoDeanouk wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BerZf7MRHPo
Ha, I like how ventolin pretends that he can tell if a track is short or not just by looking at it on TV. That looks the same as any other track, and it would look the same if it was 1m short
ventolin^3 wrote:
he only complained about timing not the track length which he woudn’t have dared speaking out about back then
now it is being questioned like rieti
No, it is only being questioned by an old man with a chip on his shoulder.
You say "it" is being questioned, yet you have never once offered a single article, quote, account by anyone at any time, which questions the length of the Firenze track.
Go on, I dare you to give a single link from a reliable source, and no that doesn't include posts on message boards by yourself and/or your aliases.
Offer one shred of evidence other than your own biased view of things, and maybe some people will actually listen.
I can guarantee you'll respond with a re-hash of all the drivel you have already posted dozens of time s before. And there won't be a single account by any reliable source that alludes to any of the nonsense that you perpetually spout.
And the 'rumour' about Rieti, that only naive or ignorant people would get involved with, was put to bed many years ago. It has been measured and re-measured countless times and found to be the correct length. Another red herring.
Saying day is night as often as you can doesn't make it so.