The DEFINITIVE Hobbyjogger vs. Runner Thread

El Jefe wrote:

I want some solid lines to be set here, so I think we should try to reach a general consensus.

To be a runner:

1. Run to compete, not run for fitness.

2. Train nearly every day and have a training plan that is geared to make you faster.

3. Have PRs that are not necessarily super fast, but fast enough in the grand scheme of things. 5k under 19 minutes, but this may be too lenient for some of you.

4. Enter races with the goal of hitting either a specific time or place.

Those are four things that I think are pretty important, what do the LRC posters think?

As 5., I would propose a minimum number of years and consecutive years, both excluding high school, that the purported "runner" has/had been doing all of 1. through 4. If somebody went all hard core prepping for a couple of marathons, not sure that makes them a runner. But we gotta be careful not to go overboard with these minimums and accidentally exclude Dennis Kimetto.

The binary really should be RUNNER vs JOGGER.

And honestly, the only real difference between the two is that runners have a true understanding about the sport and experience of running. Seriously, I'm a collegiate runner right now, and every elite high school runner, college runner, post-collegiate, competitive adult or masters person I've spoken to has a basic appreciation of track times, marathon and HM times, workouts etc. They understand the discipline required of a runner . For example, Jogger's would have no concept of what a 20 by 400m workout at 70 secs and below means, it might as we'll be rocket science to them. But runners understand, appreciate and are humbled daily by this sport. And when a runner can no longer do the things he knows are required of runners, then they are the first one's to admit that they are no longer runners. Personally, I know that I will call myself a jogger in probably a year's time, largely because I will know what it was like to be a runner, and will be proud to admit that those days are behind me.

Ultra's are simply another means for hobby jiggers to cloak themselves behind an exorbitant distance in order to distract from how far they are from being real runners. Need evidence? Well, one my college roommates and fellow track runner decided to do a 50 miler in Cali over the summer for sh%ts and giggles and broke 8 hrs on a hilly course. He won the race, and the best part is that his event in track was 400/800m. (48.06, 1:48 pr's). Runners will decimate jiggers in any and every running activity, distance is nearly irrelevant.

Interesting post! But I would have three categories. Racer, runner and joggers. A racer is someone that is highly competative and will win at all costs (PEDS, stress, cranked up heart rate, cheating). A runner is RELAXED, low stress, low heart rate but has a PLAN to compete and do as a well as he can. Ben Johnson (the idiot that was caught using steriods in the 1988 Olympics) is a racer. Prefontaine was a runner. You watch him run and he had a plan and has about the most relaxed smoothest running style I have ever seen yet he was fast too. The point is racers often burn out and runners often win. "Joggers" never really learn how to get the most out of whatever talent they may possess.

ANYONE who is running at the highest level possible is a racer and your example of a runner is a very poor one

Old Man Runner wrote:

Finishers of Barkley 100 = Hobbyjogger

It's Barkley Marathons - if you're going to denigrate the race and ultra runners, at least get the event name right.

Age old question.

A "runner" is typically unsuccessful from a competitive standpoint and inherently embarrassed that the activity he partakes in is soft enough for middle-aged or overweight, hence his need for distinction.

Tim L wrote:

Old Man Runner wrote:

Finishers of Barkley 100 = Hobbyjogger

It's Barkley Marathons - if you're going to denigrate the race and ultra runners, at least get the event name right.

You're right. The name of the event is The Barkley Marathons. It is common for it to be called "The Barkley" or "The Barkley 100". The finishers "buckle" (Sub 24 hours) in fact says "Barkley 100".

I'd hardly say an 100 mile race (although it's more like 125 miles) that takes 52 to 60 hours to cover involves much running at all. By this definition, they aren't runners, rather hobby-joggers.

All kidding aside, I'd hardly put anyone who has won both Hardrock 100 and Barkley, as Jared has done, in the "hobbyjogger" category. Barkley is a beast. Two of my good friends have never made it past one loop there.

Best answer so far (and the only thing close to a good answer); nice insights on distance and race selection. Also this distinguishes the two groups as very different people, not necessarily better or worse than one another.

There is a (small) subset of Hobbyjoggers who are highly defensive about being called Hobbyjoggers, or any hinting that their 5:30 26.2 deserves every bit as much repsect as Kenny B.'s 2:05. These folks are overrepresented in Runner's [sic] World.

There is a (small) subset of runners who are highly defensive about hobbyjoggers daring to exist. These folks are overrepresented on LetsRun.

Take up sewing wrote:

Age old question.

A "runner" is typically unsuccessful from a competitive standpoint and inherently embarrassed that the activity he partakes in is soft enough for middle-aged or overweight, hence his need for distinction.

Think you got that backwards, the definition there is more for "jogger."

But first things first, the word hobby should probably be taken out of the equation, because unless you are a professional, on a college scholarship, or aspiring to be one of those, then you are more or less running as a form of recreation. A hobby.

So once again, it comes down to the age old question of runner vs. jogger. This comes down to ability, dedication to the sport, attitude, and motivation.

So, even if you train 40 miles a week (fairly dedicated) but can only do 9 minute miles, or 8, and even into the 7s, you're pretty much a jogger. Put it this way, and average decent runnner (say 15s to 17s for 5K) will usually run sub 8 for their easy (jog) days, and the 18-19 min 5K runners might be in the 8-8:30/mile range. That's jogging. If these paces are your race paces for a fairly short distance like the 5K then you are more or less a jogger, no matter how much you work at it, how hard you try, or how badass you feel out there. (likewise, a 15:10 5K runner may win every local 5K and be competitive at state and regional level competitions, but that's still not elite).

That covers ability, dedication, and motivation more or less. What about attitude?

Attitude is where part of the schism occurs, and it's already been mentioned several times in this thread. The jogger's approach is to have fun, get a participant medal, sometimes an age group award (many races are really slow these days), and have a social event. Runners also enjoy these things, but they want more. On top of that, they want to maximize performance (plus they have the ability to run faster than at jogging pace).

At the same time, there can be runners with a lot of ability who chose not to be competitive. Greyhound lean types, who can easily knock out a 18 min 5K as a tempo run but they generally don't put in much time for training (maybe a few times a week). They would be sort of in the high ability end of the joggers. On the other hand, you might find a 21 min 5K runner (say female or male age grouper) who does work at it pretty hard, putting in at least 30-40 miles a week, interval training, tempo runs, longer runs. They're at the lower end of ability as a runner, but definitely take a more competitive and goal oriented approach. They're runners.

But as a closer, we all started out as joggers, and we'll go out as joggers (or quit altogether).

So after a quick read through it looks like I def fall into the hobby jogger bucket... at first I thought this is ironic since I still run in the 15s at will at age 30. Guess I'm just that talented (aka on PEDs to you guys)

________________________________________________

Oh, come on! Some of this post is nonsense.

1. Not all runners are "he"

2. This whole song and dance about sticking to shorter distances unless you suck at them is counterproductive. There are some strong track runners who might be amazing marathoners, but track snobbery keeps them from finding out until they're past their primes.

3. Hetero women probably don't check out the hot asses, but some are still there to compete.

4. I always look forward to a post-race meal, preferably at a great brunch spot. I can only eat a banana before racing, or I get hella sick.

5. Runners are not "skinny-fat." They only appear that way to people who don't know what lean muscle looks like. Also, runners do care what they look like b/c looking rail thin and muscular often comes with increasing fitness. They just have a different ideal body type in mind, unless you're a xfit enthusiast or xfit troll.

On the other hand, I always look at last year's results and check out Athlinks profiles. I always size up the competition based upon physique and clothing choice. And good workouts are the highlight of my week. That said, I feel a sense of satisfaction if I just finished a particularly long run at a good pace, especially if I have a marathon on the schedule.

If you train slower than 10 min pace you are a hobby jogger. Period.

Simple 10 wrote:

If you train slower than 10 min pace you are a hobby jogger. Period.

____________________

Are you hobby jogger baiting me? Elderly people who train at 10 min pace are not hobby joggers. It's all relative.

Not only that, but the training pace for most people on this board is probably a joke compared to pro runners, so there's no point in shaming the 10 min/mile people.

What about Donovon Bailey? Won the Gold medal in Atlanta, maybe the smartest sprinter ever. He figured out EVERYBODIES race plan and beat them at their own game and was never accused of cheating. Incredibly relaxed and smooth runner and one of the fastest guys I have ever seen. He beat Micheal Johnson a racer that pulled up lame in their big race.

A LOSER: Someone who cares about meaningless drivel such as hobbyjogger vs runner.

Why would you even give a crap? Is this just to stroke your own egos cuz you're 'pale and skinny/fat' and broke 19 5k?

A runner is anyone who runs between a 9 to 9:30 pace.

A racer is anyone faster than that.

A jogger is anyone of those two who goes out and gets hit by a car or gets mugged.

A hobbyjogger is a runner who does not have the Warrior spirit pulsing through their veins.

We kind of need hobbyjoggers to be honest. Not on this website but just in general. They're the ones that make us look legit. They kind of also give us a bad image to the rest of society though...