Renato Canova - can you please tell us more about Caleb Ndiku

Since we reduce the speed, we prefer to use a percentage lower than higher. I understand this is not correct under a mathematic point of view, but it's more easy like approach, considering our goal.

We call this way of calculation "percentage of speed, related with the speed of the race".

I repeat, under mathematic point of view is not correct, but can give the real idea of the pace we have tu use when, for example, is written "at 70% of Race Pace".

Far be it for me to question you or your training methods, but I was struck by this day's training in your 1st post :

Mon, 24 : a) 1 hr with short variations of speed (from 30” to 45”, at speed of 2’45” per

km, with the basic pace about 3’45”)

b) 40’ easy

Could he really just pop in a 13.45 5km midway through an hour's run? I guess it's maybe not as ridiculous as it seems at first, given that he's obviously one of the very best in the world, it just seems outrageously fast to me.

How do get bursts lasting 30-45 seconds into a 13:45 5k?

May be this workout is not clear. The pace of 2'45" per km (16"5 every 100m) is the pace he uses during the variations of speed, lasting from 30" till 45" (for example, running 200m in 33"), and he goes for one variation every 2'.

The basic speed is 3'45" per km. This means, for example, that, if you run in one km 200m in 33" (variation), 500m in 1'52" (basic speed), and the next 300m in 50" (variation), the time of your km is 3'15" (and this is a km with 2 variations).

So, this is an easy training, and doesn't have anything to do with a pace of 13'45" for 5 km.

huh?? wrote:

How do get bursts lasting 30-45 seconds into a 13:45 5k?

I read it as an hour's run where between 30 and 45 minutes he ran at 2.45 pace

understood now, sorry. I guess I glossed over the 'short variations' bit!

Renato Canova wrote:

In the case of Caleb, if I look for 12'50" (2'34" per km), I can have the following percentage of time per km :

100% = 2'34"

90% = (2'34" + 15"4) = 2'49"4

80% = (2'34" + 30"8) = 3'04"8

70% = (2'34" + 46"2) = 3'20"2

60% = (2'34" + 61"6) = 3'35"6

50% = (2'34" + 77"0) = 3'51"

Every speed slower than 50% of this calculation IS NOT TRAINING, and the athlete can find his best situation in order to feel himself better. This is the reason we call that speed "REGENERATION".

Renato, what percentages would you use for an 800m runner? The same off 800 race pace or would you do the maths based on a predicted 5000 time?

Thanks

Renato, does this mean that Caleb NdIku runs his regeneration runs on 3:51-4:00 km? Should slower athletes, training "only" 6 times a week also do recovery runs at 50% level? So a 15:50 5km runner, runs regeneration runs at (3'10'+95")=4'45"/km or slower? Do you really need regeneration runs if you are training only 6 times/week?

Thanks in advance for your reply. It is really great that a coach like you post here.

Coach, thanks very much once again for sharing training with us. Very informative. I'd tend to think that Ndiku with 3:29.5 at such an early stage in his elite career, and destroying the two Ethiopian 12:40s guys, plus Rupp at 3k (Rupp, who ran 13:01i this year), would be good for mid 12:40s this year, at least. I don't think that 3:27 is crazy to think about for him either. He is at that stage of his career where his ability is rapidly improving, and you say that he is serious in his training and outside of his training.

I would think that on ability alone, not mentality, Rupp would have been able to run 7:30 pace easily from 1k down to 400 and then 52, which is what Ndiku did.

ventolin^3 wrote:

I really hope you work on his basic 400 speed in next couple of years ( weight-training as mo did to build up his legendary speed ) & from his youth, he should be able to keep his supposed 12'50

Farah does not have legendary speed. He's like a 49 +/- 1 400m runner. Plenty of guys on the circuit have that speed.

Ambitious athlete wrote:

Renato, does this mean that Caleb NdIku runs his regeneration runs on 3:51-4:00 km? Should slower athletes, training "only" 6 times a week also do recovery runs at 50% level? So a 15:50 5km runner, runs regeneration runs at (3'10'+95")=4'45"/km or slower? Do you really need regeneration runs if you are training only 6 times/week?

Thanks in advance for your reply. It is really great that a coach like you post here.

Did you read his post? Yes? Try reading it again.

latest what wrote:

ventolin^3 wrote:

I really hope you work on his basic 400 speed in next couple of years ( weight-training as mo did to build up his legendary speed ) & from his youth, he should be able to keep his supposed 12'50

Farah does not have legendary speed. He's like a 49 +/- 1 400m runner. Plenty of guys on the circuit have that speed.

At 5K/10K? No.

Ahh, never really took into consideration the time of ground contact and eccentric phase of a stride. Got me thinking a good bit actually.

I understand that with training you want to get the most out of each session; therefore, each session has it's purpose and goal. The 1hr moderate runs are the "main training run". Presumably these runs are too work maximal aerobic capacity without redlining and not inhibiting the next days work? Moderate pace would be, presumably just under Caleb's LT? Not sure if % wise I'm right but would be around 65-70% of 5km race pace?

If "easy" running or rather "regeneration" 'movement' for the typical Elite is 3:50-4:00' /km then you're saying that regeneration sessions should typically be as close to 50% as possible? Let's say 45-50%?

Really good incite and thanks for sharing! Always appreciate a well respected coach giving incite to their athlete's training. Personally, I feel that a decent number of coaches know what to do with their athletes in terms of training. They are more knowledgeable in physiology, know the energy systems, etc (I say a lot but certainly not ALL...lot of crap coaches that don't know the difference between, for example, pure speed and speed-strength and the goals). Or maybe they don't know and just blindly follow other coaches programs without knowledge of what they're doing and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Regardless, it seems like now the next big step with human distance running might be an athlete's nutrition? I know a lot of runners out there who just eat junk and go about to say "I'll run it off anyways", using running an excuse to eat like crap. Maybe there will be something in the future addressing "nutrition periodization?" or something like that. Thoughts?

People will still insist that plodding the easy days and thrashing themselves on hard days is still better training.

Flunket wrote:

huh?? wrote:

How do get bursts lasting 30-45 seconds into a 13:45 5k?

I read it as an hour's run where between 30 and 45 minutes he ran at 2.45 pace

Flunket wrote:

Mon, 24 : a) 1 hr with short variations of speed (from 30” to 45”, at speed of 2’45” per

km, with the basic pace about 3’45”)

b) 40’ easy

Could he really just pop in a 13.45 5km midway through an hour's run? I guess it's maybe not as ridiculous as it seems at first, given that he's obviously one of the very best in the world, it just seems outrageously fast to me.

' = minutes

" = seconds

1 hr with short variations of speed (from 30” to 45”, at speed of 2’45” per km, with the basic pace about 3’45”)

1 hr run at 3 minite 45 second pace with short variations of 30 to 45 seconds at 2 min 45 sec pace.

You're welcome.

it is apparent that Ndiku is capable of the same times as the best ethopians AT 5K. so in the magic race that is 124x.

so time wise this will be the immediate target.

however, it looks like they'll be going for wins and championships first and times second.

Hi Renato:

In another thread awhile back (Lydiard/Wetmore) you started to talk about training for the fast 800 athlete vs. the resistant 800 athlete. You gave some workouts in the fundamental period for a 1:44 resistant guy. Here is what you wrote then:

These are examples for a 1:44.0 athlete (Resistant type) :

FUNDAMENTAL PERIOD :

AEROBIC POWER (3 different levels), 2 sessions per week :

a) 5 km continuous run in 16:00 > 15:15

b) 6 x 1000m (rec. 3') in 2'52" > 2'46"

c) 10 x 600m (rec. 2') in 1'42" > 1'39"

LACTIC RESISTANCE (3 different levels), 1 session per week :

a) 2 x 1200m (rec.4') in 3'20" + 3 x 800m in 2'08" (rec. 4') + 4 x 600m in 1'35" (rec. 4') with 6' / 7' between sets

b) 4 sets of (600 / 500 / 400 / 300 / 200m, rec. among tests 2' and among sets 5'/6') in 1'36" / 1'18" / 61" / 45" / 28"

c) 5 couples of (800 / 200m) rec. in between 2', rec. among every couple 5', in 2'06" - 26"/ 27"

LACTIC CAPACITY : no training in the fundamental period

LACTIC POWER : 1 time every 10 days about, one test at max speed with a distance between 400m and 1000m, or, if possible, one test lasting about 2:00 at max intensity running uphill. This test must be done at the end of an a training of long and easy run (basic aerobic resistance).

In this period, we use also a training mixing Lactic Resistance and short sprint uphill, for increasing the neural ability to recruit fast fibers during a growing lactate situation : example :

8 x 600m in 1'39" / 1'42". After every 600m, 5 times 50m sprint uphill at max speed (recovery about 1', time to walk back). Recovery between every 600m and the set of sprints must be about 2', the same after the set of sprints.

Read more:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=5460433&page=11#ixzz2vg8zVq00

Would you mind giving some examples for the 1:44 fast guy?

Also, do you still do circuits if you are doing the combined Lactic Resistance/short sprint uphill workouts? Thanks.

out of hibernation? Great!

Renato, could you detail Caleb Ndiku's preparation in the "general" and "special" phases in the months leading up to the indoor championships?