I have done both in college. XC skiing is more extreme. You can take it to the limit in both sports and be far worse off afterwards with skiing.
I have done both in college. XC skiing is more extreme. You can take it to the limit in both sports and be far worse off afterwards with skiing.
Hill Stomper wrote:
I have done both in college. XC skiing is more extreme. You can take it to the limit in both sports and be far worse off afterwards with skiing.
I also did both in college and agree that XC Skiing was more taxing, both racing and training. Not putting the running down at all, it's just that when I look back at my training logs the skiing workouts/races we did were longer, more was expected (in workouts), and I had higher heart rates.
Not sure I agree with "...far worse off afterwards with skiing", only because with skiing we almost always raced back to back days, and I never went easy the first day but I was always alright for the second day. Usually it was 15k+/- individual race on Friday (40-50 minutes) and 7.5k+/- relay on Saturday (~20 minutes, some weeks the relay was longer or shorter so maybe as little as 15 minutes or as much as 30 minutes). Plenty of XC running races I was wiped out at the finish, head spinning, legs full of lactic acid, lungs burning. I don't ever remember feeling too good for Sunday long runs after an XC running race, if you had asked me to race again like during ski season it would have been ugly.
So I guess if you mean "right after" an XC ski race vs an XC running race, for me they both felt awful. 24 hours later running took more of a toll.
Back to the OP...personally I think the collapsing at the finish line we see is a little dramatic. I've never done it, and the old-timers in this sport never did either. Certain actions become fashionable for whatever reason. Hopefully this is one that fades away.
Clearly you don't run hard enough. At plenty of events where there is a sprint for the line runners collapse. Alternatively look at triathletes. At the last ITU meet of last season Johnny brownlee collapsed trying to outsprint Gomez. It's not just xc skiers
How about this:
You are tired, you just skied 5k-30k against the best athletes in the world, or the middle-of-pack athletes at a local race. For your individual self, you pushed hard and are exhausted now. Whether you are truly wiped out or just tired is irrelevant.
The snow is soft, it won't get you dirty, you fall and lay there for a while because it just feels good after working so hard.
After I finish hard workouts at a track, I'll lay in the grass for a minute to get off my legs just to lessen the mild discomfort I have.
You crossed the line, you finished a workout, you're in discomfort, might as well lay down to help ease it.
The men didn't collapse last night in the Pursuit. So my take is, while there is no doubt exhaustion is part of the theatrics of the finish. Not to mention it is snow, and you're hot so I'd lay down too.
But to go down the way they do is just silly.
John Clendon wrote:
How about this:
You are tired, you just skied 5k-30k against the best athletes in the world, or the middle-of-pack athletes at a local race. For your individual self, you pushed hard and are exhausted now. Whether you are truly wiped out or just tired is irrelevant.
The snow is soft, it won't get you dirty, you fall and lay there for a while because it just feels good after working so hard.
After I finish hard workouts at a track, I'll lay in the grass for a minute to get off my legs just to lessen the mild discomfort I have.
You crossed the line, you finished a workout, you're in discomfort, might as well lay down to help ease it.
you wouldn't know diddly about squat
sprawler wrote:
There's no good standing rest position with xc ski on your feet.
this..
also xc ski is much much harder than running.. uses all the major muscle groups, not just legs.
It's just theatrics, as others have noted.
Sounds like fun wrote:
For you guys that have done a running/shooting race - I assume the firearms were provided by the event organizer/range? And how did the start work - they send runners off at 30 second intervals to space things out?
I remember that in my event, we used .22 caliber target rifles provided by the event organizers. We were not allowed to run the course with them; they were at the individual shooting stalls waiting for the competitors to arrive.
We had to attend a mandatory safety class the day before the event, which made obvious sense since firearms and live ammo were involved.
What I don't recall is if it was a mass start or if we were sent off in waves. We were probably sent off in intervals though, since there were only a limited number of shooting stalls and rifles available.
The other difference in the event I did was that you got a time BONUS for every target you hit, rather than being penalized for missing. I think it was a 5 second subtraction from your overall time for every target hit. I went 9 for 10, only missing one shot in the standing position.
I'm not sure if the summer biathlon (running & shooting) is even held anymore. If you ever get the chance to try it, do so. It's quite challenging and a lot of fun.
The old guys didn't fall. That's true.
One guy on my college ski team was having the race of his life and was really pushing it to the edge. Normally he was the kind of guy that refused to fall over after a race. This time, since he was in contention for the win, he pushed it to the max and collapsed across the line.
In regular world cups you don't see nearly as many guys falling as during the Olympics. I think because the Olympics is for all the marbles these guys fall down across the line.
It should be noted that you have to be in extremely good shape to push yourself that hard. If you aren't in perfect shape it's pretty hard to ski so hard you can't stand up.
The USBA really supported summer biathlon in the 1990s but it seems to have faded away. Too bad it was a lot of fun.
Usually they do interval starts because of the limited number of shooting lanes at a range (6 to 15 or 20 at most places.
I think it has more to do with the full splits they do when trying to get the transponder across the line, hence off balance at 100% fatigue.
I had to do something similar with an UZI with 2 X 30 bullet clips, I think it was run 800 meters, fire at the target several times, run another 800 meters repeat. However, we had to run with the UZI.
XC Sk race is very very hard, I have raced in running and cycling, and XC skiing and the latter is very hard. I would rate cycling second and running third.
xcskier66 wrote:
The old guys didn't fall. That's true.
One guy on my college ski team was having the race of his life and was really pushing it to the edge. Normally he was the kind of guy that refused to fall over after a race. This time, since he was in contention for the win, he pushed it to the max and collapsed across the line.
In regular world cups you don't see nearly as many guys falling as during the Olympics. I think because the Olympics is for all the marbles these guys fall down across the line.
It should be noted that you have to be in extremely good shape to push yourself that hard. If you aren't in perfect shape it's pretty hard to ski so hard you can't stand up.
I think this is correct. I've seen 2 XC ski races so far this Olympics and they both went down to the wire. The lead pack finished very close together battling for a medal, any medal. These are the ones that ended up on the ground after the finish line.
As the other skiers that were not going to make the podium crossed the line, they were tired but skied off to get water or whatever.
The old guys didn't fall because there were no sprint finishes back then. The skiers started every minute or so.
You have clearly never participated in a 30km skate race... Literally I swear, some of those hills are like walls, not to mention that you have to go up each one multiple times. I ski at the university level in canada and I will admit in an xc ski race you are literally dead after 5km and just have to hold on for the rest of the race as you are using your entire body to propel yourself forwards. I'm a runner but I have to say cross country skiing is much more difficult. Please try the sport before you bash it and its althetes.
You have clearly never participated in a 30km skate race... Literally I swear, some of those hills are like walls, not to mention that you have to go up each one multiple times. I ski at the university level in canada and I will admit in an xc ski race you are literally dead after 5km and just have to hold on for the rest of the race as you are using your entire body to propel yourself forwards. I'm a runner but I have to say cross country skiing is much more difficult. Please try the sport before you bash it and its althetes.
imarunr wrote:
Sounds like fun wrote:For you guys that have done a running/shooting race - I assume the firearms were provided by the event organizer/range? And how did the start work - they send runners off at 30 second intervals to space things out?
I remember that in my event, we used .22 caliber target rifles provided by the event organizers. We were not allowed to run the course with them; they were at the individual shooting stalls waiting for the competitors to arrive.
We had to attend a mandatory safety class the day before the event, which made obvious sense since firearms and live ammo were involved.
What I don't recall is if it was a mass start or if we were sent off in waves. We were probably sent off in intervals though, since there were only a limited number of shooting stalls and rifles available.
The other difference in the event I did was that you got a time BONUS for every target you hit, rather than being penalized for missing. I think it was a 5 second subtraction from your overall time for every target hit. I went 9 for 10, only missing one shot in the standing position.
I'm not sure if the summer biathlon (running & shooting) is even held anymore. If you ever get the chance to try it, do so. It's quite challenging and a lot of fun.
Cool - I figured they would provide target rifles...and I also wondered about the safety aspect of it, so thanks for sharing that as well. Need to hook up with some sort of local target shooting club and see if they would be interested in putting something like that on...
I've done both sports for long time and there is some truth to both sides of this discussion. Part of it is physical and part cultural. It's easier to 'go under' in skiing, to push yourself to exhaustion. In big races I've seen skiers on the side of trail flat on the ground and utterly spent. Only very rarely have I seen that in running.
Most coaches and meet directors look down upon the flop at the finish line. It goes in waves, and some teams are more prone to doing this.
I've crossed the line in many a ski races utterly spent. Usually just bent over and resting elbows on knees for a good minute or two gasping for breath. Sometimes you slip out and end up on hands and knees.
Thing is, I've been to many high school running races with kids flopping around like flounders as well.
Sketic of it All wrote:
The men didn't collapse last night in the Pursuit.
Those were biathaletes. They are used to not collapsing so they can shoot straight.
(SPOILER FOR TURTLE NBC VIEWERS)
In the sprint finals most of the collapsers didn't wait till the finish. Cologna face-planted twice for no reason. Bjoergen stayed in last, accelerated into the skier in front of her. They both seemed to be taking a dive.
The men's final was ridiculous. First Emil Joensson gave up due to exhaustion. Then a Swede and a Norwegian crashed on the narrow right turn, and Ustiugov fell over them, leaving Hattestad and Peterson alone in the race. Ustiugov was the first to realize whoever got up first would take third, and continued while his coach ran after him screaming. But something happened to him off camera and Joenssen limped home for the bronze, at which point of course he collapsed. And then he couldn't get up and his trainers had to pick him up and carry him away.