How the heck does Hansons-Brooks train in the winter

While Stoney Creek is nice, that path can get really icy even when they clear the snow. I was out there a few weeks ago and it was like an ice rink. Definitely had to watch your footing in several places.

I haven't been out there in about a week, but some of those dirt roads in the area (Sheldon, Gunn, Mt. Vernon) are usually ok even with a big snow.

ScottEvil wrote:

Randy Oldman wrote:

Hansons-Brooks:

Half Marathon Lactate Threshold Workout on ice

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ee9LocKECE

I liked the part where someone slipped on the ice and got injured.

According to the comments, he was already injured, and made it worse by running 15 miles home, despite what the video says. The slip had nothing to do with it. Why Drew didn't tell the coach he was injured I don't know.

I ran with the Hansons for one year. While I was there, and from what I understand they still do the same, the team takes turns taking 10-day training breaks to Orlando/Kissame, Florida during the heart of the Michigan winter. One of Keith and Kevin's main points for their crew being located in Michigan is that there are four seasons. Running through all conditions and climates builds stronger runners both mentally and physically in the Hansons' model.

We had a few negative temperature days while I was on the team and we normally trained outside at the normal time (AM). There were exceptions though. For a few workouts we trained indoor on a soccer field and on one of the colder days I remember running at a Lifetime Fitness.

Stony Creek Metro Park is also well-plowed and cleared during the winter, so worst case, we would run there. That's where the group does most of their workouts all year. We also put wood screws in old shoes/flats for traction on the ice.

There is no doubt the other athletes in other pro groups are gaining fitness over the Hansons teams right now by training in warmer weather and better footing.

Mi Weather wrote:

There is no doubt the other athletes in other pro groups are gaining fitness over the Hansons teams right now by training in warmer weather and better footing.

no doubt at all. I think we know why so many hansons athletes don't live up to the hype in spring marathons now.

I read James Carney's blog a few years ago. He trained at altitude, in freezing winter weeks, and said it made him tougher. I think he tore it up that year.

I ran in Madison, Wisconsin in the 1980's. After this recent brutal cold snap I looked back and found three days I ran in -28, -29, and -21. And one workout where the windchill was -60. Our coach did not like the distance runners being on the indoor track much then. I don't think he made us do workouts like long fartleks or tempo runs in those conditions because it made us tough. He just didn't want us getting too fit too fast in January. But the only time in 5 years living there I had to miss a run was due to ice. After an ice storm you literally can't run barely more than a walk pace with slipping and hurting yourself. But that was the only time I recall not being able to train. There were no treadmills in dorms or campus fitness centers back then. I might have opted for a 6 mile tempo run on a treadmill when we had those days under 0 degrees.

The wind is the real killer. Madison was cold in the winter but rarely had the strong winds from the west you get around the Great Lakes like Detroit.

In Madison there were a lot of stretches of road that were always cleared and safe to run. The 6 mile Arb loop and the Shorewoood Hills neighborhood both were kept plowed and had little traffic. As well as the roads around the UW Hospital. We might have those as are only options for a couple months to run.

I remember that day when the actual temp was -29 and watching John Easker after running a 5 mile warmup from his apartment coming in with ice all over his beard and winning a low key mile in 4:04.

You can train anywhere providing you have footing to run fast enough to work hard. Warhust in Michigan on rare snow days would have his distance runners run for an hour through snow on the golf course.

The Finns like Viren would run 150 mile weeks during the winter. I'm sure you wouldn't term that quality training but the heart rate was up.

I used to believe there was a benefit to marathoners being calloused more from dealing with tough training situations. This was I widely held view when I was a young runner but if I had a chance to do everything over I wouldn't have missed those damn winters.

I don't think they help at all but if you have no choice you find a way if you want to.

Mi Weather wrote:

There is no doubt the other athletes in other pro groups are gaining fitness over the Hansons teams right now by training in warmer weather and better footing.

Because you can't train just as hard in the winter? If you're really from Michigan maybe you should move to an easier state? I'm sure you'll improve.

Most people run less than 10 miles a week--More would be crazy

Most people don't run when it rains--that's crazy

Most people don't run 7 days a week--that's crazy

The reason that most people feel this way is because it is uncomfortable and anything that makes them uncomfortable is crazy.

Same is true with running in below freezing temperatures. Most people think it is crazy, but champions accept being called crazy and know that is what separates them from "most people".

Congratulations Hansens brooks athletes for helping to prove that point. The only way a group of athletes that are not as talented as the best in the country are able to compete is to think differently.

Hardloper wrote:

Mi Weather wrote:

There is no doubt the other athletes in other pro groups are gaining fitness over the Hansons teams right now by training in warmer weather and better footing.

Because you can't train just as hard in the winter? If you're really from Michigan maybe you should move to an easier state? I'm sure you'll improve.

no, the harder the better. from what I hear things suck in michigan. They suck worse than anywhere on the planet, so technically Michigsn should produce the best runners. Things sucking is better than altitude or any drugs. I heard they also do training runs barefoot with people calling them ass-holes and saying they suck the whole way.

Cross country skiing is one way to avoid having winter "suck" for aerobic training. Skate skiing, up and down hills, is faster than classic and conducive to long enjoyable distance, typically a couple hours covering over 20 miles. By the spring all running injuries are gone and your aerobic condition is better than that of most Florida runners.

buster quad wrote:

no, the harder the better. from what I hear things suck in michigan. They suck worse than anywhere on the planet, so technically Michigsn should produce the best runners.

Well, you're starting to get it at least.

According to the comments, he was already injured, and made it worse by running 15 miles home, despite what the video says. The slip had nothing to do with it. Why Drew didn't tell the coach he was injured I don't know

Probably because then the coach would've done the whole ignorant pseudo-tough love thing "You're not really injured, this is all just your attitude!"

Listening to that exchange was one of the most enlightening things I've seen about the Hansons. And it wasn't favorable.

I live in Northern Michigan where we average 150-200" of snow a year and have hit the deck running so many times that I now do primarily snowshoe running mixed with XC skiing from late November to April. Snowshoe running is kind of like running with ankle weights/resistance training and it tends to max out the heart rate a lot more than running without snowshoes. The neat thing about snowshoe running is that it is trail running and nobody else is on the trails.

If I do run on the roads and there is some snow hardpack or scattered ice, I put on some ice cleats (small titanium pins) or screw in small screws into my shoes so the screw head gives traction. A big downside to running roads in winter is cars can splat you pretty good with mush. With big snowbanks there is no place to hide.

With regard to the windbriefs previously mentioned - critical. I wear a bandana over my face if the wind chill dips below minus 20 F or so. It is easy to slide up or down as needed. Also - run into the wind first before you warm up and then with the wind back home. The reverse makes you freeze when the wind hits the sweat.

Hardloper wrote:

Mi Weather wrote:

There is no doubt the other athletes in other pro groups are gaining fitness over the Hansons teams right now by training in warmer weather and better footing.

Because you can't train just as hard in the winter? If you're really from Michigan maybe you should move to an easier state? I'm sure you'll improve.

Your muscles performe better when warm, ergo training in cold winters is not as good as training somewhere warm

Luke Humphrey ‏@LucusHumphrey 10 Jan

What a 90 degree temp swing will do for you: 3x2 miles: 10:02, 10:02, 9:56. Felt very comfortable. Prob cause had 10 lbs less clothes on!

Barakus Obama wrote:

Hardloper wrote:

Because you can't train just as hard in the winter? If you're really from Michigan maybe you should move to an easier state? I'm sure you'll improve.

Your muscles performe better when warm, ergo training in cold winters is not as good as training somewhere warm

Drew was such a puss... thank god he has matured. He WANTED to stop.