QUACKERY & RUNNING

There is a good chance that anything you see a ton of advertising for, you don't really need.

Luke Duke wrote:As for HRM's, runners who use these are the super analytical/anal types who think their bodies are like a hot rod that can be tuned precisely and monitored with the use of gauges. Sorry, it ain't like this.

Analysis is no substitute for mileage.

Pete to Luke: "Look, fresh water."

Luke to Pete: "Neighhhhh!"

hehehehehe

I agree with my brother, Luke. Runners tend to over-analyze everything. "How many sips of Gatorade should I take for everytime my right foot hits the ground in a 26.2 mile race?"

NOTHING beats working hard.

Never meaning no harm.

chuck d wrote:

Bazza wrote:

I do still think they look a bit silly on people running a track race - especially indoors!

or at night.

Not if they are being paid to wear them or get a bonus if they are shown on TV wearing them. They are laughing all the way to the bank in that case.

Luke Duke wrote:

What products or practices exist in running that are simply bullshit? For instance, does altitude training really improve performance? What about those hypoxic tents? What about Breathe Right strips? Or those stupid socks Paula Radcliffe wears? How about Gatorade? Are PowerBars better than eating Little Debbie cakes?

Inquiring minds want to know.

LD

There have been studies showing that breathe right does nothing for exercise performance. Mainly because ventilation is not the limiting factor in exercise for healthy people.

Socks? Questionable. The idea sounds plausible (increasing venous return) and Cavanaugh, et al at Penn State looked at compression shorts doing the same thing. My issue is that the compression shorts covered a greater area than the socks would.

Sports drinks? Generally they work in that they provide water, carbohydrate and electrolytes. The science showing better training and performance is pretty solid. Some of them make over the top claims, but the big ones are solid, IMHO.

Powerbars: the issue here is how does it affect blood sugar levels. A little Debbie Cake will probably spike insulin faster than a powerbar (which could be a good thing). All in all, there is nothing wrong with them. Will they make you a champion? No.

Altitude training: This is a bit trickier. If you can get an increase in red cell mass from this legal training method, then you could get a performance boost. However, the exposure time and the potential de-training is an issue that needs to be resolved. Remember for everyone athlete who is successful who used altitude in some form or another, there were other athletes who also trained/lived at altitude who were not successful. To me altitude training, if used, must be integrated properly into an overall training scheme. It is not merely enough to move to Boulder or Flagstaff and expect your times to drop. Attend a USOC/HASTC altitude workshop sometime (the next one will be in 2005 I think).

luv2run-

they still look silly whether they are "laughing to the bank" or not. if maurice greene were to wear a dress and was getting paid $100K to do it he would still look silly.

Quack Quack wrote:

HR Monitors, GPS, Brethe Right, some shoes, fanny packs, water bottle holders, and many others I can't think of right now. Lots of crap out there that people don't need. Don't know if that fits into "quackery" but it's useless stuff.

If you never needed a water bottle holder, then you've never run far enough.

I have run 30 any further then that is for joggers like yourself.

luv2run wrote:

There have been studies showing that breathe right does nothing for exercise performance. Mainly because ventilation is not the limiting factor in exercise for healthy people.

Socks? Questionable. The idea sounds plausible (increasing venous return) and Cavanaugh, et al at Penn State looked at compression shorts doing the same thing. My issue is that the compression shorts covered a greater area than the socks would.

I think one girl has it right about these. What I remember from physiology is this: oxygen levels at sea level are well higher than the quantity that can be absorbed by blood through the lungs. Breathe Right strips (and oxygen supplementation, although this is usually only by football players) is useless for most people most of the time. Breath Right at best changes the shape of nasal passages but unless you have serious blockage this would never be helpful. Just like sucking oxygen at sea level.

Socks? Venous blood return is aided by musclular contraction and outside pressure (like the flight suits worn by military pilots). That's why you don't lock your knees when standing for long periods of time--reduced venous return leads to decreased blood pressure and... wham! Of course, while running (ie, using nigh every muscle below your waist) you get adequate venous pressure. Maybe these socks are useful for flying or lounging around but I can't imagine they're ever useful in a race (unless you've got ugly legs.)

Flagpole Willy wrote:

Quack Quack wrote:

HR Monitors, GPS, Brethe Right, some shoes, fanny packs, water bottle holders, and many others I can't think of right now. Lots of crap out there that people don't need. Don't know if that fits into "quackery" but it's useless stuff.

If you never needed a water bottle holder, then you've never run far enough.

a real man would filter his own water through his cool max shirt and drink that. if you know what i mean.

Galloway and Penguin are running quackery incarnate.

chuck d wrote:

Stupidity wrote:

... what is a HR monitor going to do for me?

that's really one of the keys to this whole "quackery" thing; some people will see benefits/need to have certain things. a lot of runners -- mostly in the "recreational" category -- don't need a HR monitor because it will tell them virtually nothing they don't already know. when you start getting towards the elite levels, where the slightest of things become all important, a HR monitor can give you rather significant insight into your training.

I strongly disagree with this actually. While it may be true of -say- cycling or swimming, very few elite runners actually bother with HRMs. The people HRMs tend to benefit the most are beginners, as a common mistake is to go too fast at first.

While a HRM may be useful on a jog to make sure you remain in your target zone, you might as well chuck the bloody thing away if you're doing speedwork (or at least, there is no way the HR zones I have seen recommended for various types of sessions will lead to any kind of improvement). Bottom line is: speed work is eyeballs out (or at least very near)... nothing scientific about it. And you'll be hard pushed to find me a good standard runner that doesn't do it this way.

As far as recovery runs are concerned, it only takes a few months experience to recognise going into lactic effort, so the bloody things become redondent fairly soon.

100% correct. The only people who might need orthotics are those with SIGNIFICANT leg length discrepancies.

We don't need HRM's, Gu, 'ade beverages and specialized shoes with all the junk on them either.

I would submit that those who feel they need orthotics might not be natural distance runners, but sprinters or should specialize in distances under 1500m. Not everyone needs to, or should, run over 3K in competition. You may be genetically predisposed to another event, or should explore another realm of T&F altogether!

Use your imagination.

Alan Lawrence, a coach, has decried the lack of competitions available for people in the sprints and shorter distances. How about the triple and long jumps and PV and HJ?

Granted, not all can aspire to the Olympic Trials, but many will find sufficient challenge and can get their competitive itches collectively scratched on the track or in a field event versus the road.

This is an issue that could/SHOULD be addressed by USATF...but...well...you know...

Luke Duke wrote:

I think massage is bullshit. I'll change my mind if someone can show me evidence that it aids in recovery.

Get yourself one masssage per week for the next 8 weeks and see how it affects your training. I'll bet you would be surprised how much it helps.

Roger the sheep wrote:

chuck d wrote:

[quote]Stupidity wrote:

... what is a HR monitor going to do for me?

As far as recovery runs are concerned, it only takes a few months experience to recognise going into lactic effort, so the bloody things become redondent fairly soon.

Steve Scott mentioned turning to HRM's late in his career, perhaps he was lacking experience?

Monty

Roger,

While some clever salesman may be able to sell a HRM to a beginning runner, someone at that level most definitely does not need a HRM to do anything. They'll figure out soon enough what is too fast for their 3 mile runs. I would never recommed a HRM to a beginning runner just as I would not recommend a beginning runner use a watch all the time; part of running is learning, for lack of a better word, a "feel" for certain speeds and intensities. Relying on a HRM or watch at such an early stage inhibits development more than it helps because runners using them liberally don't learn this. HRM are, in my opinion, more for fine-tuning than anything and beginning runners don't need fine-tuning.

And as the previous poster alluded to, you might be suprised at who uses HRMs. And I'm not suggesting anyone should use them for all workouts, nor am I suggesting that all elites use them.

orange is a state of mind wrote:

Luke Duke wrote:

I think massage is bullshit. I'll change my mind if someone can show me evidence that it aids in recovery.

Get yourself one masssage per week for the next 8 weeks and see how it affects your training. I'll bet you would be surprised how much it helps.

________________________________________________________

I reccomend hypno-massage

you are SOOOOO right!

I can't really ad to the your list. I've been running for 25 years and really the ONLY new product that I've found that makes a real difference is the CoolMax stuff. I love those coolmax long sleeve T's, no more cotton soaking you down on a 20 miler. (Won't help you run faster, but you'll certainly feel better while you run.)

HR monitors are pretty good, a nice tool if used correctly.

*Everything else is pure gimmicery (sp?)

*EPO seems to work quite well but I don't count it because it's illegal and banned.