Damn my son is slow

You should hit him with a ruler if he doesn't meet your expectations.

If he wants to do the miles, let him. Your only input should be to support him -- and remind him not to build up too quickly and get injured.

Also, the impact isn't just on him, but possibly on his team. Every team needs the passionate grinder. Even if he never gets truly fast, he can help to build the culture and be a leader of his team, even help them get to the State competition. We just got back from Florida HS championships. My son's one of the slower kids on his varsity team, but it was a great experience and will be a great memory.

dkny64 wrote:

Dad "with bad genes and slow son" - I think you've gathered that what a lot of us are responding to so harshly are your screen name and subject line. Perhaps we could start over and think of you as, say "Dad with questions" who's concerned about his "15-yr-old son stuck on 18-high plateau". Is that a fair way to frame where you're coming from?

That is the crux of it - thanks for the thoughts on rephrasing. After reading this site for a bit it seems like many folks on here think that running sub 17 minute 5k in xc is a layup. Just do your 500 mile summer show up for practice in the fall and bam! Well it is not that easy for my son, and that bothers him which bothers me. I am trying to help him get his arms around the issue of what are reasonable expectations and goals and also what should be the focus if he really wants to get faster. SO far many of the responses have been very educational and I am appreciative for the collective wisdom.

Awesome - glad to help + best wishes to you and your son.

What a jerk you are, you should support your son and not degrade him, what do you think he would think of you as a parent if he saw the way you talked about him.

But if you are asking for advice, move to kenya have your son train with the 10 year old girls there probably all about the same speed!!!!

SMJO wrote:

Have you considered suing your wife? It worked for that Chinese dude.

post of the week

Another Option wrote:

There are lots of great things he will take away from the sport even if never flips the switch.

Can this be the quote of the day? Along with Cassidy's piece, this is the best thing I've read on LR in forever. I'm going to remember this for my son and the kids I coach.

back to the roots wrote:

You should hit him with a ruler if he doesn't meet your expectations.

Dont give him any ideas!!!

You should get a DNA test before you spend more time on coaching this young guy.

I'd rather start out where your son was than where I did. He still has room for improvement. Freshman year I ran a 16:43 5k, 9:41 3200m, and a 4:32 1600m. I'm a senior now and my times have barely improved. I have a 16:19 5k, 9:39 3200m, and a 4:23 1600m. I got a grade four stress fracture in my leg sophmore cross country.

I ran a 800M best of 2:34 my freshman year in high school and ended up running 16:00 for 5k on the track my senior year and a 4:15 mile in college.

If you really think your 15/16 year old son is slow with only a year of running and low mileage and his current times, what would you call the masses of HS males running 21-22 minute 5K's? Cats with super uber duber bad genes? Your son is fine; not crazy talented but far above average.

Since you believe it's "bad genes" and not other factors....pressure from you, lack of interest on your son's part, etc......have you considered that you yourself "inherited" moronic tendencies from your father?

I ran 5:20 and 12:xx as a freshman, probably running similar milage to your son. Worked down to 4:30, 9:45 my senior year. Obviously not amazing, but I'm still improving in college. Don't think there is no hope. You've just gotta do it for the love.

Who are the folks with "unlimited" talent?

Subfive wrote:

Who are the folks with "unlimited" talent?

You're obviously making no effort to consider the poster's intent in asking:

"At what point is a runner working hard enough to determine that he really has limited talent?"

There are clearly athletes that are "strong responders" and some that are "weak responders", meaning that two athletes subjected to the same training stimulus do not make equally advantageous adaptations. While no one knows for sure how fast they can get at any distance, every runner gets to a point in their career where they realize this is about as good as I'm going to get for the amount of effort I want to put forth.

I think "dad" is being pragmatic in asking how much training do you need to do in order to figure out whether you're likely to see much success. I just think he's being premature in asking the question. There are too many things happening physically, mentally, and emotionally in a kid that age that really prevents seeing his future achievements with any degree of accuracy.

I think he also places too much value on innate genetic abilities. There are true freaks of nature that have developed the right mental/emotional make-up and who also have the ability to physically respond quickly to training stimuli while remaining relatively injury-free. However, there are only a handful of those kind of athletes each year in scholastic athletics. My experience suggests that even at the top of the podium at most state meets you will not necessarily find the most genetically gifted athlete in the field.

Dad - my advice is to stop trying to predict the climax of the story with regard to your son's running career. The unpredictability of the journey provides the basis for all kinds of self-discovery that will serve your son well no matter what he does latter in life. It's important for an athlete to believe in their training, but it's more important for them to believe in themselves. Your question asks how much work is necessary in order to see his limits. My direct answer is that it's a lot more than he has done so far, but that asking that question is counterproductive to his search - it assumes limitations that are unknowable in advance. Both of you need to focus on enjoying the journey and his story as it is revealed.

clearly he's not going to be great on 30-50mpw. if that bothers him, it means he has to run more. he probably won't be great based on his times, but he can be good at 50-80mpw. once you start running that much, you find out what your talent level will let you run.

if he actually puts in the miles, he should expect to drop a minute by next fall and get into the mid 17s. miles do have a major impact. generally kids get better as they get older, and if he adds solid training on top, he'll get even better.

some people just develop at different times than others. im the uk being the best junior means nothing as does being an average junior. we had a kid that couldnt get in our scoring 4 in the xc champs. he went away started doing 70mpw and came 3rd in the national xc champs a year later.

dkny64 wrote:

Dad "with bad genes and slow son" - I think you've gathered that what a lot of us are responding to so harshly are your screen name and subject line. Perhaps we could start over and think of you as, say "Dad with questions" who's concerned about his "15-yr-old son stuck on 18-high plateau". Is that a fair way to frame where you're coming from?

However, if the OP would have written a bland and sincere request for help...he would have had 2-3 replies and then his post would slip away.

On the subject of your son's training. My first advice to novice runners are that they need to run EVERY day and they need to keep a training log. If he's only running 5 days a week or only when he's with the team, progress will come very slowly.

Whenever someone has doubts about mileage...I like to point them to this training article: