Cheers to Bernard Lagat

I should also mention that El G had to get braces.

This means that either running 3:26 is so fast that it knocks your teeth loose or that HGH use was/is common among high level athletes.

CERA was cool to use for a while but it stays in your body for a longer period of time so you will be glowing longer.

Micro dosing of EPO is incredibly effective and easy as it can be removed from your body with 48 hours or faster if you have the right protocol.

"Both Floyd Landis and Thomas Frei gave evidence in the past that with current EPO testing, it’s possible to inject the substance late at night and, by drinking plenty of water, be fully clear of the danger of detection by the time the testers call the next morning."

Read more:

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/13859/New-EPO-test-could-help-stamp-out-microdosing.aspx#ixzz2eGAnEDDT

TLW wrote:

Sam W. wrote:

Lots of people get braces later in life, he never tested positive for anything, and violating a technicality regarding dual citizenship (I'm not aware of any other arguably questionable behavior).

I never cared about cycling.

I was too young to follow Regina Jacobs's career.

Lots of people get braces later in life, true.

But when high level athletes get them in their 30s it is a telltale sign of HGH use.

You are young, naive and ignorant on PED use. Please educate yourself on doping before contributing to these discussions.

Okay, first off, has it ever been proven that HGH actually enhances athletic performance? I'm pretty sure it hasn't. Also, hasn't there been a test for it since like 2004?

Second, Lagat looks no different than he did in the 1990s.

And yes, it is increasingly common to get braces later in life:

Sam W. wrote:

Okay, first off, has it ever been proven that HGH actually enhances athletic performance? I'm pretty sure it hasn't. Also, hasn't there been a test for it since like 2004?

Second, Lagat looks no different than he did in the 1990s.

And yes, it is increasingly common to get braces later in life:

http://www.webmd.com/oral-health/features/straight-talk-about-braces-for-adults

Yes, it has been proven that HGH causes growth. Human GROWTH hormone. Google, read, educate yourself.

Also, are you up in Lagat's mouth looking or using a tape measure to see if his jaw moved?

And the final point: Because there is a test for a drug does not mean athletes will test positive. If an athlete tests positive they did something seriously wrong.

PLEASE educate yourself on PED use, side effects, how to evade testing.

I was not clear: HGH is used for recovery, etc for performance. I mean you don't think something that helps repair/grow the human body would not be useful for athletes. God damn.

TLW wrote:

Yes, it has been proven that HGH causes growth. Human GROWTH hormone. Google, read, educate yourself.

I asked if it "enhances athletic performance," not if it causes growth. I did google it and got this article from "Annals of Internal Medicine":

. Here's a highlight:

"Claims that growth hormone enhances physical performance are not supported by the scientific literature. Although the limited available evidence suggests that growth hormone increases lean body mass, it may not improve strength; in addition, it may worsen exercise capacity and increase adverse events. More research is needed to conclusively determine the effects of growth hormone on athletic performance."

Since you are so knowledgeable on this subject, please refer me to some of the sources from which you were able to glean your knowledge.

HGH helps recovery, which allows the athletes to work harder thus improving gains.

I mean this isn't even disputable.

I'm not searching through medical journals either.

Sam, you are either an idiot or delusional if you think HGH has no benefit for athletes.

Cool. You think he's a doper. A lot of us think he's clean. You aren't going to convince us otherwise anymore than we're going to convince you. Yell at us until you are red in the face - we'll keep watching our friend build his resume of the greatest American distance runner of all time.

lagat fan wrote:

Cool. You think he's a doper. A lot of us think he's clean. You aren't going to convince us otherwise anymore than we're going to convince you. Yell at us until you are red in the face - we'll keep watching our friend build his resume of the greatest American distance runner of all time.

I am more amused because this is like the Lance Armstrong threads that used to pop up here years ago.

TLW wrote:

HGH helps recovery, which allows the athletes to work harder thus improving gains.

I mean this isn't even disputable.

I'm not searching through medical journals either.

Sam, you are either an idiot or delusional if you think HGH has no benefit for athletes.

Okay, I guess I'll trust an anonymous internet poster who can only muster ad hominem arguments and proof by assertion against an article in a peer-reviewed medical journal.

lagat fan wrote:

Cool. You think he's a doper. A lot of us think he's clean. You aren't going to convince us otherwise anymore than we're going to convince you. Yell at us until you are red in the face - we'll keep watching our friend build his resume of the greatest American distance runner of all time.

TLW wrote:

I am more amused because this is like the Lance Armstrong threads that used to pop up here years ago.

Cool story, bro. That you think Lagat and Armstrong are comparable cases is amusing to me.

lagat fan wrote:

Cool story, bro. That you think Lagat and Armstrong are comparable cases is amusing to me.

Regina. Jacobs.

TLW wrote:

lagat fan wrote:

Cool story, bro. That you think Lagat and Armstrong are comparable cases is amusing to me.

Regina. Jacobs.

How are they comparable?

Also, sure HGH has benefits for athletes, but it's possible that it also has drawbacks. What no one knows is if the benefits outweigh the drawbacks (according to the post a few posts ago). No, you don't know this if the scientists who spend their lives researching it don't even know.

How can you possibly disagree with that? Do you know better than the scientists?

Zat0pek wrote:

Yep, the same Bernie that suddenly needed braces on his previously perfect teeth a few years back. Huh; I wonder why that would be?

Not quite Tiger. Here's the gap that was in his teeth. I have no problem with you calling him a dope but don't use his teeth as evidence because it just makes you look like a moron.

How are Regina Jacobs and Bernard Lagat comparable? Superb performances at ages where superb performances should raise eyebrows. 12:58 at age 38 is stupid. Just like 3:59 at age 39 was stupid for Regina.

Ok, let's say HGH has no use for athletes, which means the NFL, NBA, MLB, athletics and cyclists who use and test positive are using something that has no benefit (LOL).

Why do you guys think Lagat is clean?

If Lagat was Moroccan people would be going CRAZY right now.

I get you think he's clean, but do you also see why people would think he's dirty, especially given the positive test (where he waited it out - this is a point people miss), the lies about nationality?

Do you think these points have no value?

For those who are fans, don't you have some suspicions? Do you think he competed in the EPO era clean? Do you think he beat convicted dopers clean in that era?

lagat fan wrote:

Cool story, bro. That you think Lagat and Armstrong are comparable cases is amusing to me.

TLW wrote:

Regina. Jacobs.

Even. More. Amusing.

lagat fan wrote:

Even. More. Amusing.

Explain? I think it's a good comparison.

The fact that Regina Jacobs was doper does not have any bearing on whether Lagat is one.

If he was Moroccan? I don't recall anyone suggesting Jaouad Gharib was a doper after he was second in the marathon in Beijing at 36, surely a better performance than 12:58 for second on a circuit race.

That athletes engage in some behavior does not mean that is in fact useful. They could just be deluded.

Sure, Lagat is still good. Not as good as some people have been at his age, and not as good as he once was. Not exactly proof that he's a doper.

To sum up, your points are 1) Regina Jacobs also ran fast at a relatively advanced age and was a doper, 2) some athletes use a substance that is banned but likely has little to no positive effect on performance, 3) Lagat had a false positive on a drug test in 2003 (that's why they have the B sample), 4) you feel that similar performances from an athlete of a certain nationality would cause people to accuse that athlete of doping based on his nationality.

Yes, I think those points have no value.

First - If it's appears to good to be true it probably is; meaning Regina Jacobs otherworldly performances near 40 and Lagat's otherworldly performances near 40. Similar situation. It's too good to be true.

Jaouad Gharib started late in life and runs the marathon where success is more realistic for a mid 30 athlete.

Having said that, MANY people have suspicions about him and so do I about many Moroccan athletes.

The fact that Lagat is setting AR's for 2 miles and running sub 13 is abnormal at his age. It appears too good to be true.

Nationality is HUGE in sports. Russia, Morocco, Spain, China, Turkey, USA. You understand that in some countries there are systematic doping taking place, right?

The comparison with Jacobs isn't the best because Lagat isn't running 1500m PBs (or established world records). Jacobs was as fast as she ever had been at 39 while Lagat is clearly not at the height of his powers.

The "waiting out the test" argument is nonsense. If you're ever in that situation, you want to make sure you have qualified experts to observe that everything is going by the book. I can't understand how people think that giving an extra 10 days to test a B sample can change where the lines will show up in the gel and yet anti-doping agencies routinely retest urine samples after months or years for rhEPO.

I'm fine with the citizenship question. I don't know that you get to choose the exact date of your swearing in, or that he had the option of postponing it until after Athens. If you want to hold it against him that he didn't immediately travel to the embassy in Washington in May 2004 and renounce his Kenyan citizenship, ok, but remember that Kenya had every right to retroactively revoke his citizenship and his results at the Olympics and they declined.