Rudisha talked about wanting to run a fast 1000m this year. From spectator's point of view, it would be more interesting to see Symmonds get in on that because there would be a specific target: the AR that has stood since 1974.
For the 15, I'm sure he'll run fast because he's in good shape, but no one will remember the details. And a second or two here or there won't really mean anything for his possible future in the event.
David Krummenacker 3:31.93
Reaper wrote:
1. Show one international race where he doesn't do this.
2. Well going out in a similar pace every race isn't winning him anything. Why wouldn't he ever try anything different?
3. He is never right with the leaders in international races. His stupid race strategy doesn't allow it.
The guy is one of the dumbest athletes we have in T&F. Luckily for him he's talented.
Congrats, in your two-minute thought experiment you definitely have more insight into Nick Symmonds's racing than he has in the last 6 years of international competition.
Let's talk about the 800...
It's been said that an ideally fast 800 would have a two-second positive split, an idea Symmonds buys and Rudisha and others have somewhat confirmed in all their recent fast PRs. Sometime in the summer of 2011 after USAs, Symmonds said his runs were becoming too evenly split and he needed to work on his speed and getting out faster, which he did.
In the Olympics, on the other hand, I think I timed his splits at something like 25.0, 25.46 (50.46 official), 25.94, 26.55 (52.49). Yes, his last 200 was by far his slowest, he just slowed down less than the rest of the field. These indicate to me that he ran it as fast as he possibly could... to medal he would have to go at least .42s faster. If he had finished the last 200 in 26.0, you might have a point that he went out too slow (but then again he would have medalled in that case). His strategy going in was to simply run the maximum time he was capable of running that day and hope it would get him a medal, a perfectly reasonable strategy in my opinion. This is the same strategy Manzano used - he didn't try to run with Makloufi, he just ran what he was capable of running and picked off the guys who blew up.
You have no evidence that Symmonds is some kind of super-talent. Obviously anyone who runs 1:42 has a lot of talent, but then again he didn't get any scholarships out of HS and chose D3. I see him as a very smart runner who has developed himself quite well.
george oscar bluth wrote:
David Krummenacker 3:31.93
ding ding ding
Pretty solid 800m man making the big jump with a big time.
I think Nick could do it if he commits.
A "jump" to nowhere. Krum never really came close to running that fast again at 1500m in the years that followed and never made a World or Olympic team at 1500.
If Symmonds runs 3:32-3:33 he'll be somewhere on the American 1500m list behind Wheating and Krummenacker. And it will be two more years before he could even theoretically make the 1500m his event in a Worlds-qualifying year.
Or he could take a real shot at the 1000m AR. Now.
Mrr82 wrote:
Reaper wrote:1. Show one international race where he doesn't do this.
2. Well going out in a similar pace every race isn't winning him anything. Why wouldn't he ever try anything different?
3. He is never right with the leaders in international races. His stupid race strategy doesn't allow it.
The guy is one of the dumbest athletes we have in T&F. Luckily for him he's talented.
It's winning him the best place possible. There's a reason why so many American 800 runners over the years who went out in 50 flat everything didn't make it and usually got beat.
Lucky for us he's smart.
How do you know it's winning him the best place possible? Your second sentence makes no sense. Symmonds usually goes out in 50-51 and still gets beat. Whats your point?
killarney wrote:
Reaper wrote:1. Show one international race where he doesn't do this.
2. Well going out in a similar pace every race isn't winning him anything. Why wouldn't he ever try anything different?
3. He is never right with the leaders in international races. His stupid race strategy doesn't allow it.
The guy is one of the dumbest athletes we have in T&F. Luckily for him he's talented.
Congrats, in your two-minute thought experiment you definitely have more insight into Nick Symmonds's racing than he has in the last 6 years of international competition.
Let's talk about the 800...
It's been said that an ideally fast 800 would have a two-second positive split, an idea Symmonds buys and Rudisha and others have somewhat confirmed in all their recent fast PRs. Sometime in the summer of 2011 after USAs, Symmonds said his runs were becoming too evenly split and he needed to work on his speed and getting out faster, which he did.
In the Olympics, on the other hand, I think I timed his splits at something like 25.0, 25.46 (50.46 official), 25.94, 26.55 (52.49). Yes, his last 200 was by far his slowest, he just slowed down less than the rest of the field. These indicate to me that he ran it as fast as he possibly could... to medal he would have to go at least .42s faster. If he had finished the last 200 in 26.0, you might have a point that he went out too slow (but then again he would have medalled in that case). His strategy going in was to simply run the maximum time he was capable of running that day and hope it would get him a medal, a perfectly reasonable strategy in my opinion. This is the same strategy Manzano used - he didn't try to run with Makloufi, he just ran what he was capable of running and picked off the guys who blew up.
You have no evidence that Symmonds is some kind of super-talent. Obviously anyone who runs 1:42 has a lot of talent, but then again he didn't get any scholarships out of HS and chose D3. I see him as a very smart runner who has developed himself quite well.
I like how you type all that and still didn't address any of my points. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO
I'll type out my points with numbers again so you can easily understand them.
1. Anyone who runs a 1:42 and gets 5th in the Olympics is a super talent.
2. It's not that I have more insight into Nick's racing strategy, it's that there's no insight to be had. HE'S DONE EXACTLY THE SAME THING EVERY YEAR FOR THE PAST 6 YEARS. How anyone doesn't have insight on that is beyond me.
3. In his post-WC 2011 800 he explained that his ultimate goal is to medal in a major championship. In the 2011 WC he starts out in the back and then allows himself to get boxed in on the second lap. Ok so when the race is slow his strategy doesn't work. In the Olympics last year, what does he do? Can you guess? HE STAYS IN THE BACK FOR 700 METERS!!! His first lap he ran basically by himself with NO DRAFTING. He arguably ran a harder first lap than everyone else, but Rudisha. At least 2-7 had drafting. Explain to me how that's smart. How was any of his Olympic strategy going to win him a medal? Does anyone with sense thinking he was going to go from 8th to 3rd in 100 meters?
Does that sound like a smart man's thinking?
3a. If the pace is slow his strategy messes up. If the pace is fast he stays in the back the entire time.
Yep, sounds like a racing genius! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO.
No the slow races dont mess him up its just that with rudisha and solomon where is he gonna find a slow race. If he was in the 2000 olympic racr that went out in 54 or so he would have had a great vhance to medal or even win in those circumstances.
might be wejo wrote:
Canova>God wrote:There is a very good chance that Makloufi and Kaki will be in that final.
wut¿
Makhloufi ran 1:43 last year and has expressed interest in doubling this year. I think he is plenty good enough to make the final. If you remember he was in the 800 in the Olympics but controversially dropped out of a prelim so he could focus on the 1500.
What I can tell from this thread: Reaper doesn't know sh!t about racing or the 800m.
Reaper wrote:
How do you know it's winning him the best place possible? Your second sentence makes no sense. Symmonds usually goes out in 50-51 and still gets beat. Whats your point?
Symmonds usually goes out in 50-51????? Wtf. I can count on a hand or less how many times he's gone out under 51. High 51's is more like it.
the dude ran 1:42. 3rd fastest american....EVER.
all you guys are morons. he is racing just fine.
here is some expert advice: stick with the barbies and makeup, junior.
stuff you like to pee out wrote:
the dude ran 1:42. 3rd fastest american....EVER.
all you guys are morons. he is racing just fine.
here is some expert advice: stick with the barbies and makeup, junior.
Winner
To all the people bashing Symmonds 800 tactics
1. They are not the ideal strategy for running an 800, but they are what works best for Symmonds based on his abilities.
2. The majority of world class 800 guys are 45/46 quarter speed. Rudisha is 45 low. Symmonds is 47 at best. To run a first lap only 3 seconds off your PR is suicide in an 800 no matter who you are, imagine Rudisha/Solomon running a 48 low. Even for them that would be too fast. His endurance capabilities and racing strategy helps him by enabling a fast kick even though he does not have the raw speed of his 800 competitors.
3. Who says he will use the same strategy in the 1500 as he does in the 800 anyways? Even if he does he can run 3:33 or better, hes in shape.
I think NS can run a 45.8 .
stuff you like to pee out wrote:
i've heard this from so many people last summer after london: if he would have went (sic) out with the leaders he would have medaled.
stick with the barbies and makeup, kiddo.
You talk a lot of trash for an illiterate. You probably ought to keep a lower profile until you master your native language.
Bob Dobbs wrote:
You talk a lot of trash for an illiterate.
thank you for compliment!
Reaper wrote:
I like how you type all that and still didn't address any of my points. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO
K fine, I'll make it more clear for you
1. Anyone who runs a 1:42 and gets 5th in the Olympics is a super talent.
In the same spirit, anyone who runs 1:42 and gets 5th in the Olympics is smart and a very good racer. Moot point. Next...
2. It's not that I have more insight into Nick's racing strategy, it's that there's no insight to be had. HE'S DONE EXACTLY THE SAME THING EVERY YEAR FOR THE PAST 6 YEARS. How anyone doesn't have insight on that is beyond me.
And he's steadily improved for 6 years. Next...
3. In his post-WC 2011 800 he explained that his ultimate goal is to medal in a major championship. In the 2011 WC he starts out in the back and then allows himself to get boxed in on the second lap.
Didn't work out, but Borzakowski and Schumann won this way so it was worth a shot. Next
Ok so when the race is slow his strategy doesn't work. In the Olympics last year, what does he do? Can you guess? HE STAYS IN THE BACK FOR 700 METERS!!!
I forgot already, did you want him to get boxed, or not?
His first lap he ran basically by himself with NO DRAFTING. He arguably ran a harder first lap than everyone else, but Rudisha.
False. He was close enough to Osagie to draft, any closer and he'd risk tripping him up especially if there was a slowdown. He ran the easiest lap of anyone by far.
At least 2-7 had drafting. Explain to me how that's smart. How was any of his Olympic strategy going to win him a medal? Does anyone with sense thinking he was going to go from 8th to 3rd in 100 meters?
Wottle went from 8th to 1st in 100m. In fact had Symmonds evenly split his 800 he would have pulled off the same thing. Next...
3a. If the pace is slow his strategy messes up.
No it doesn't. Next...
If the pace is fast he stays in the back the entire time.
Which again is how countless 800s have been won. Next...
Oh wait that's all you had.
Realism wrote:Symmonds is 47 at best
that 47+ in dublin is a misleading result
dublin is usually freezing ( even in summer ) & windy & he ran that without any blocks with a standing start !
he probably was in heavy training at the time & likely did no tapering for this 400
i'd have to say that in the london race he probably was in mid/high-46 shape
that london race was also pretty damn much a solo effort, because being so far at the back on 1st lap he receieved little/no drafting
if he'd been quicker on 1st lap he wouda obviously been slower in 2nd lap but got drafting which shouda more than compensated
he couda gone maybe even a mid-1'42 that day if he couda run that race again
There is no question he is capable of hitting 3:33 or even 3:32 if he puts together a good race.