NCAA REGIONALS ARE NOT RIGHT!

It is officially called east/west prelim not regionals.

[/quote]

The old system was fine, NO ONE WAS COMPLAINING about it.

Kids could chase times in local sanctioned meets.[/quote]

Are you out of your mind? No one was complaining about the old system?!!!! People were up in arms about the old system, which is what led to new systems.

The old system greatly favored those who by virtue of either geography or travel budget got to compete in good weather conditions more times than others who were left to run in the cold and wind or extreme heat.

What we have right now is about as fair as it can get.

lost in Boston wrote:

The old system was fine, NO ONE WAS COMPLAINING about it.

Kids could chase times in local sanctioned meets.[/quote]

Are you out of your mind? No one was complaining about the old system?!!!! People were up in arms about the old system, which is what led to new systems.

The old system greatly favored those who by virtue of either geography or travel budget got to compete in good weather conditions more times than others who were left to run in the cold and wind or extreme heat.

What we have right now is about as fair as it can get.[/quote]

The old system had problems. The new has problems.

The new system has cost the Oregon a national title or two for sure.

you can't run back to back 10k's or even good 5ks at the top level in back to back meets.

I remember when Arkansas won with Lincoln and Cragg in the 10k, you can no longer even attempt this because trying to qualify kills the legs and they can't repeat it at nationals.

10k needs to be by time list. everything else can be run at east/west prelims.

rojo wrote:

You use a govt analogy. IN reality, people who don't want regionals are like people on welfare, you think you deserve something for no work.

Are you suggesting people on welfare are just lazy people who love to live on scraps even though theres plenty of work around for them to get?

I actually think the current regional system is as close to perfect as you can get. It doesn't take much to qualify - so it's not like someone who has a shot won't make it. But it's also competitive to get out (though not restrictively so if you're a true contender).

It weeds out people who peak in April and highlights those that aren't great with time trial type races, but can race the F out of anyone around them when they need to.

Your example is a bit ridiculous. Why don't we extrapolate and put say Jordan gets to the NCAA finals and bombs. Would you say it's unfair that she shouldn't get 2nd automatically simply because she was ranked 2nd? No. It's a round. Qualify and move on. Pretty simple.

you can't run back to back 10k's or even good 5ks at the top level in back to back meets.

Some can't but many do. If you are saying that the last qualifiers have the best chance at winning nationals because they didn't extend themselves your are wrong. The best rise to the top more often than not in all events/ sports. Sure some luck is involved and some experience bad luck and there are "upsets" but usually most that are prepared will find a way to perform to their best ability when it counts the most. More often than not, the law of averages prevails. There arne't that many dominators anyway so they run the races in a championship setting.

Head to head competition for the right to advance is always better than some early season performance. Those that qualify are most ready and not just entitled. Some people just want to see their favorite always come out on top and have every advantage possible going in to ensure it. Too bad, you had your chance to prove yourself at some point and either came through or just dreamed about being on the starting line. The athletes overwhelmingly prefer beating the competition head to head and don't want a free ride. They will play by whatever rules are put in front of them and typically have a better time dealing with the results than the coaches or spectators do.

When something doesn't go your way, blaming others relieves responsibilty but doesn't fix the problem. Look in the mirror and get better.

asu guy wrote:

you can't run back to back 10k's or even good 5ks at the top level in back to back meets.

I remember when Arkansas won with Lincoln and Cragg in the 10k, you can no longer even attempt this because trying to qualify kills the legs and they can't repeat it at nationals.

...uh, look back to 2009 and the men's 5,000/ 10,000 double...and the guy that did it ran quicker at USATF a few weeks later.

Put the state of Wisconsin (and it's whopping four D1 schools) in the East and some of the absurd distance disparity goes away. Just like that. Poof. But it'll never happen. Or Arkansas, same thing.

The real issue isn't the system, but how the original East/West split of schools was determined and how/why the unfair system is perpetuated. The East schools know it's a ridiculous advantage and won't budge. I can't blame them. They've totally gamed the system, gotten away with it and now spout the "beat the competitors in your region" line. Again and again and again.

How did Arkansas end up in the West and LSU in the East? Anyone? Bueller?

However, runners from warm weather states do have an advantage. Setting that aside, it would surely be possible to seed a few athletes into the NCAA on the basis of prior performance, and as well having the regionals to determine other spots. The claim that the big schools can get to the meets with the best conditions is nonsense. Just with reference to the 5 and 10, if one goes over all the heats at Cardinal Invite, Mt. Sac, and Payton Jordan, one will find competitors from all over the place. Here, e.g., are the women's results from the Mt. Sac womens' 5000s:1 Abbey D'Agostino Dartmouth 15:11.35 2 Lucy Van Dalen New Zealand 15:21.08 3 Mary Cullen Ireland 15:23.12 4 Neely Spence Brooks Hansons 15:26.51 5 Marisol Guadalupe Romero Mexico-FMAA 15:29.51 6 Kate Van Buskirk Athletics Toronto 15:29.72 7 Megan Goethals Washington 15:33.63 8 Emily Sisson Providence 15:39.80 9 Jackie Areson NIKE 15:41.20 10 Laura Thweatt Boulder Track Club 15:41.74 11 Katie Clark Butler 15:43.51 12 Hannah Kiser Idaho 15:44.06 13 Laura Carleton Louisiana State 15:44.41 14 Emily Stites William and Mary 15:45.31 15 Ava Hutchinson New Balance 15:51.49 16 Jennifer Bergman Arizona 15:52.41 17 Angela Bizzarri Brooks 15:55.29 18 Aya Nagata Toyota Industries 15:55.33 19 Gina Valgoi Loyola (Ill.) 15:55.56 20 Risper Kimaiyo Texas El Paso 15:55.67 21 Josephine Moultrie New Mexico 15:57.17 22 Sara Hall Asics 16:00.61 23 Lindsay Flanagan Washington 16:01.45 24 Diane Robison Arkansas 16:02.47 25 Anayelli Navarro Casta�e Mexico-FMAA 16:11.35 26 Sara Sutherland Texas 16:11.52 27 Bradi Hutchison Idaho State 16:13.75 28 Grace Heymsfield Arkansas 16:19.32 29 Yuriko Kobayashi Toyota Industries 16:21.29 30 Michi Numata Toyota Industries 16:22.631 Natasha LaBeaud Brooks 15:50.34 2 Jessica O'Connell UCAC 15:50.65 3 Laura Hollander Cal Poly 15:53.73 4 Natasha Fraser PIH 16:00.03 5 Rhiannon Johns UAB 16:01.24 6 Waverly Neer Columbia 16:01.36 7 Nicci Corbin Arizona 16:04.26 8 Semehar Tesfaye Arkansas 16:04.78 9 Daniela Alejandra Alonso Mexico-FMAA 16:04.81 10 Clerc Simpson Brooks 16:07.88 11 Rachel Cliff Vancouver Thunde 16:07.89 12 �ngela Maria Figueroa Pa Colombia 16:08.43 13 Jamie Smith Southern Utah 16:08.94 14 Andrea Secaffien Guelph 16:10.91 15 Brooklyne Ridder Penn State 16:11.93 16 Mia Behm Texas 16:12.18 17 Ellie Keyser Boulder Track Club 16:12.77 18 Shannon Klenke Arkansas 16:15.09 19 Rachel Mitchell Sacramento St. 16:15.34 20 Mary Alenbratt SMU 16:15.77 21 Sarah Pagano Syracuse 16:16.08 22 Emma Bates Boise State 16:16.83 23 Monika Juodeskaite Oklahoma State 16:17.93 24 Sarah Collins Providence 16:19.80 25 Ruth Keino Alaska Anchorage 16:20.87 26 Samantha Bluske Iowa State 16:22.96 27 Dani Stack Iowa State 16:29.68 28 Caitlin Lane Penn State 16:40.02 29 Patricia Terry TCU 16:41.00 30 Kelly McCurdy Purdue 16:45.82 31 Mackenzie Chojnacky Toledo 17:06.83 -- Jana Soethout San Francisco DNF1 Carrie Verdon Colorado 16:14.58 2 Sophie Curl San Francisco 16:14.86 3 Agnes Kemboi TCU 16:19.92 4 Tessa Murray Boise State 16:20.04 5 Abby Levene Princeton 16:21.80 6 Maritza Arenas Labana Mexico-FMAA 16:22.35 7 Courtney Frerichs UMKC 16:22.98 8 Kaitlin Flattmann Arkansas 16:23.33 9 Kirsten Kasper Georgetown Univ. 16:23.55 10 Kinsey Gomez Oregon State 16:24.17 11 Kelsey Smith UCLA 16:26.73 12 Morgan Kelly Harvard 16:27.98 13 Shawna Winnegar New Mexico 16:28.64 14 Alicia Nelson Adams State 16:28.74 15 Ashley Eckhoff TCU 16:32.51 16 Danielle Jewkes Southern Utah 16:32.78 17 Sammy Silva Harvard 16:34.09 18 Natalie Shields BYU 16:35.13 19 Annamarie Maag Georgetown Univ. 16:37.54 20 jessica Textoris Unattached 16:39.39 21 Brecca Wahlund North Dakota St. 16:39.73 22 Lindsey Nielson BYU 16:43.02 23 Perez Rotich Iowa State 16:44.28 24 Natasha Verma Portland 16:44.49 25 Katy Moen Iowa State 16:44.64 26 Meghan McGovern William and Mary 16:45.07 27 Kristen McGlynn-Arendt Adams State 16:46.61 28 Brooke Tullis Toledo 16:46.62 29 Erin Murphy Providence 16:59.30 30 Lavenna Kubatzky Hansons-Brooks ODP 17:00.23 31 Samantha Roecker Providence 17:04.53 32 Carise Thompson Guelph 17:06.33 33 Megan Jenkins Adidas Team Green 17:20.10 34 Victoria Fratczak Oklahoma State 17:23.22 35 Kelsey Smith Georgetown Univ. 17:42.32 36 Allison Sawyer Boulder Track Club 17:51.05 37 Lauren Smith Stephen F. Austin 17:55.451 Lisa Ohberg Cal St. Los Angeles 16:26.49 2 Jenny Bergren Academy of Art 16:29.38 3 Bailey Belvis Missouri 16:30.03 4 Olivia Pratt Butler 16:30.24 5 Margo Richardson Saint Louis 16:30.34 6 Kirsten Bradford Southern Utah 16:31.70 7 Marit Tegelaar Portland 16:32.02 8 Lauren Mugnaini Sacramento St. 16:32.13 9 Daniella Moreno UC Santa Barbara 16:33.87 10 Lindsay Anderson North Dakota 16:35.91 11 Sophie McNeely Western State 16:38.90 12 Laura Hottenrott Portland 16:40.98 13 Jessie Brunett Adams State 16:43.50 14 Nicole DiMercurio Georgia 16:44.56 15 Christine Cooperstein UC Santa Barbara 16:46.98 16 Emily Short Saginaw Valley 16:49.11 17 Allyson Winchester Grand Valley St. 16:49.13 18 Valerie Reina Arkansas 16:50.85 19 Kirsten Follett New Mexico 16:52.66 20 Kelly Lamb Adams State 16:53.12 21 Jessica Harper Texas 16:55.14 22 Melanie Townsend Northern Arizona 16:56.02 23 Anne Luijten Portland 16:56.81 24 Sylvia Bedford Southern Utah 16:58.38 25 Laura Young BYU 17:00.16 26 Karis Frankian The Masters 17:04.17 27 Megan Burrell UC-Colo. Spgs. 17:05.44 28 Morgan Gonzalez Saucony Hurricanes 17:05.78 29 Sarah Toberty UCLA 17:08.94 30 Megan Wright Toledo 17:13.56 31 Rachel Bush Cal Poly 17:22.63 32 Taylor Petersen Iowa State 17:27.30 33 Jessica Janecke Grand Valley St. 17:50.471 Taylor Berg St. Thomas (Minn.) 16:34.51 2 Whitney Henderson Colorado St. 16:38.78 3 Annie Mooney UCLA 16:49.94 4 Kendall Howen Texas 16:50.43 5 Carina Mendoza Fresno State 16:51.21 6 Megan Janezic Loyola (Ill.) 16:51.89 7 Liz Reida Missouri 16:52.91 8 Becky Gough Lamar 16:54.49 9 Janelle Lincks Metropolitan St. 16:55.55 10 Andrea Toppin Iowa State 16:55.73 11 Kelli Sugimoto Loyola Marymount 16:57.74 12 Brandi Krieg Tulsa 16:58.63 13 Adriana Olivas Arizona State 16:59.17 14 Julie Pack Western State 16:59.18 15 Brittnie Munoz Loyola Marymount 16:59.61 16 Devyn Ramsay Toledo 17:00.14 17 Connor Ward Texas 17:01.91 18 Alex Litzsinger Utah State 17:03.42 19 Jessica Davis Texas Wesleyan 17:03.58 20 Sarah Darby BYU 17:04.92 21 Katherine Swanson BYU 17:07.10 22 Savannah Pio Cal Poly 17:07.49 23 Hailey Hanna Arizona State 17:09.09 24 Jylian Jaloma UMKC 17:09.21 25 Heidi Peterson North Dakota St. 17:11.59 26 Kristen Busch Bradley 17:13.63 27 Alex Ciaraglia Cal Poly 17:16.12 28 Priscilla Timmons Toledo 17:16.34 29 Michelle Read Cal Poly 17:19.14 30 Angela Blackham Utah Valley 17:20.18 31 Dayna VanArsdol Southern Utah 17:32.33 32 Hayley Ney Santa Clara 17:38.44 33 Shelli Mogensen Southern Utah 17:47.94 34 Cassie Lohmeier Bradley 18:02.29 35 Maggie McDuffee UC Irvine 18:11.74 -- Anne Threlkeld Mississippi DNF

dfggfkj wrote:

How did Arkansas end up in the West and LSU in the East? Anyone? Bueller?

I believe they call it The Mississippi Effect or Affect I never get those two correct.

It's amazing how I read these posts, so many posters who agree with "status quo". That is to say, there are so many of you out there who simply agree with what is happening in our running culture....it's disgusting!

If you are fine attending a track and field meet where there is no entertainment, no music, no announcing, no food, no crowd, no enjoyment, no anything....than you people in track and field deserve yourselves. Unbelievable!

rojo wrote:

IN reality, people who don't want regionals are like people on welfare, you think you deserve something for no work.

Thanks for generalizing all people on welfare. You have any data to back this up or did you pull it out of rush limbaughs ass? There is so much to like about letsrun.com, especially your weekly recaps, but then you make ignorant remarks like this. You don't know sh*t about people on welfare and how long the average recipient is actually on it.

This whole Regionals systems sucks!! Did you watch Jordan Hasay run tonight? I think she just gave the NCAA and this entire regional system the finger!

Rojo, no matter what you say on this board will never be right. This is what makes it so entertaining!

TME or TMA wrote:

I believe they call it The Mississippi Effect or Affect I never get those two correct.

Bummer for Wisconsin that the Mississippi got re-routed at the exact time the committee was deciding on the split and then got re-routed back just after.

It's a miracle.

You are thinking about it wrong 100%.

What if an athlete fails/trips or is sick at the Olympic Trial or Olympics? It's called earning it. The regionals are AMAZING.

You use a govt analogy. IN reality, people who don't want regionals are like people on welfare, you think you deserve something for no work.[/quote]

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You are using an example wrong 100%.

If I say ppl on letsrun hate the current NCAA Regional setup you would be adamantly against such a statement. You wouldn't want to be labeled in such an ill-informed matter.

You can say some ppl MIGHT think they deserve something for no work...(or most ppl if you have facts to back), but there are people on welfare who have been or are on whom actually need(ed) the assistance to get them and maybe their families back on track...or on a track for the first time.

yuoipo wrote:

This whole Regionals systems sucks!! Did you watch Jordan Hasay run tonight? I think she just gave the NCAA and this entire regional system the finger!

Actually, Jordan fairly qualified for the 5k because of the parity of the system, as did the other 11 qualifiers.

Saul Goodman wrote:

I actually think the current regional system is as close to perfect as you can get. It doesn't take much to qualify - so it's not like someone who has a shot won't make it. But it's also competitive to get out (though not restrictively so if you're a true contender).

It weeds out people who peak in April and highlights those that aren't great with time trial type races, but can race the F out of anyone around them when they need to.

Your example is a bit ridiculous. Why don't we extrapolate and put say Jordan gets to the NCAA finals and bombs. Would you say it's unfair that she shouldn't get 2nd automatically simply because she was ranked 2nd? No. It's a round. Qualify and move on. Pretty simple.

As the poster above said, you can't run that many hard 10k's in a season.

Make the 10k's seeded on time, and no longer have them in regionals and and maybe things can work.

But, enough head coaches and schools, ftr, hate this system...no one wants to host it, and schools are being asked to host it as a favor.

If these athletes are really good this one meet shouldnt be an issue. Track and field is the only sport that is not tailored to the fan but is athlete centered. Which is why it struggles to get any support. This is the same concept and system as the ncaa basketball and what football is going to.

The old system is sooo dumb, you get to go to the ncaa championship based on your ranking during the season.

The regional concept provides excitement because of the idea of an even playing field for those who have earned it (top 48). Also the idea of seeing a big time athlete get eliminated provides excitement. I just watched coastal carolina women 4x4 beat lsu last night and the crowd went crazy. If an a powerhouse w the resources of an lsu cant beat a smaller school.... Tough luck. Get over it. Bottom line is smaller schools are dealing w less resources and still have to go out and compete like everyone else.

If u take away the budgets of these big schools they would probably be gettig whipped even worse.

In conclusion i guess the march madness tournament should just allow the top two ranked bball teams into the national championship game every year without any kind of tournament. Lol thatll really work out.