2:20 Marathon: How Much Talent Required?

"Talent" is the physiological makeup of a human being. Muscular makeup of fast & slow twitch, bone density, connective tissue strength, cartilage durability, lung size, leg to torso length, frame size, bone length differences, etc. all affect whether you have a chance to be an elite runner. True, Genetic variation among humans is very small. However, that small variation results in normal people ranging in height from 4 feet to 8 feet. The above listed items and many more have equal diversity. So you see, there is "Talent" and it varies wildly among humans. Questions: How many Kenyans have broken 10sec in the 100m? Americans? And how many Americans have broken 27:30 in the 10K. Kenyans? Why? Can the 27:30 10k runner be trained to run a sub 10sec 100m? Vice versa? People become what they were born to become in most cases.

no talent needed brah wrote:

Talent doesn't exist. You just need a good diet and good training. Kenyans aren't any more talented than Americans. Nor are Western Africans. There are people that point out that only one white guy has ever broken 10 in the 100 meters but it is because the Africans believe more; they have faith. There is nothing physiologically different between people.

Wow, the way you started off I thought you were making the case for how hard it is to run 2:20, and then you go and say you could have gone 2:15 with better training. Going from 2:23 to 2:15 is a huge jump.

To others that have said anyone can run 2:20 with enough training, you're either trolling or not that observant. A 2:20 marathon puts you on the level of one of the best ever female marathoners. There just aren't that high a percentage of men that have the same ability as the top women, and a guy trying to break 2:20 certainly isn't going to be training harder.

no talent needed brah wrote:

Talent doesn't exist. You just need a good diet and good training. Kenyans aren't any more talented than Americans. Nor are Western Africans. There are people that point out that only one white guy has ever broken 10 in the 100 meters but it is because the Africans believe more; they have faith. There is nothing physiologically different between people.

[/quote]

You are very wrong. Anyone who has been in the sport of running knows that everyone has limits and to be great you need the combination of extreme talent and willingness to work hard. Having only one of these traits is not good enough.

We always like to think when we are watching the Olympics that these are the hardest workers and that is why they made it. That is so wrong. Salazar saw Rupp's talent at a very young age.

I've run with very talent runners and coached very talented runners. The ability for the body to handle endurance is just as much of a talent as the ability to sprint very fast. Those in the Olympics and at World Champs are freaks of nature. I had no more chance of getting there than a guy with no legs - oops I guess Oscar even had a better chance than me.

800m Coach wrote:

no talent needed brah wrote:

Talent doesn't exist. You just need a good diet and good training. Kenyans aren't any more talented than Americans. Nor are Western Africans. There are people that point out that only one white guy has ever broken 10 in the 100 meters but it is because the Africans believe more; they have faith. There is nothing physiologically different between people.

Really? It was a joke. Sadly, there actually are dumb people that believe this. :(

You are very wrong. Anyone who has been in the sport of running knows that everyone has limits and to be great you need the combination of extreme talent and willingness to work hard. Having only one of these traits is not good enough.

We always like to think when we are watching the Olympics that these are the hardest workers and that is why they made it. That is so wrong. Salazar saw Rupp's talent at a very young age.

I've run with very talent runners and coached very talented runners. The ability for the body to handle endurance is just as much of a talent as the ability to sprint very fast. Those in the Olympics and at World Champs are freaks of nature. I had no more chance of getting there than a guy with no legs - oops I guess Oscar even had a better chance than me.[/quote]

A decent amount of talent and a lot of hard work. You hardly see any guys at the OTs who didn't run in college...and most did triple digit weeks for several years out of college to make that kind of dream a reality.

Rough indicators: a sub 15:00 for 5k at the bare mimimum for speed/Vo2max..probably most would need to be 14:40 or so in terms of "speed." of course a 10k in sub 31:00 and a half under 1:08-1:07 are better indicators.

Another thing: 2:22 isn't 2:20...those 2 minutes are a big difference. Running 5:20 pace for 26.2 miles is not joke - and unless you are very very talented you are going to really have to work for it and dedicate yourself to running for years (if not a decade).

I have no talent whatsoever and I ran 2:18 and under 30 for 10km.

In Italy there was the big Gelindo Bordin with 2h08'pb on the marathon that ran 28'30''and 1h02'15''pb on 10 K and half marathon...there is an athlete with(pb):15'02'';31'02'';1h07'37'';2h19'...

Deer Goucherfghasdg wrote:

Well in general 2:20 is a big deal for an amateur runner. However, if, like you say, if there is no other focus in life I bet anyone That could train and not get injured with a modicum of talent could pull it off. That guy would be a total loser though.

Unless they were compared to you

You are talking shite as well

.

Let's just say that anyone who runs a marathon in 2:20 is very very very talented. If one person takes 5 years to do it and another takes 10, they are both still very very very talented. Perhaps, the one who pulls it off in 5 yrs could get another "very".

After 7 or 8 years of training at one's max, it's not likely that 8 minutes could later be chopped off a 2:23?

Rocky Balboa wrote:

I have no talent whatsoever and I ran 2:18 and under 30 for 10km.

corrections: you have talent and therefore you ran a sub 30/ 10k and a sub 2:18. it´s a question of genetic capabilities.

have a look how many runners can run these times, then look at gaussian distributions. we all know for sure:

only a few are made for a sub 2:18 and all others will never perform it.

I know someone who almost but didn't quite get under 2:20 fairly early in his marathon career then did exactly what you're suggesting for about the length of time you mention. He never ran as fast as in that one time when he got close. On the other hand, Ron Hill's debut was 2:24. He got to 2:14 pretty quickly and then needed another six years to get under 2:10. There simply is no way to know.

That's why the real question the OP needs to answer has nothing to do with his likelihood of getting under 2:20 if he completely devotes himself to doing it. He can't know in advance if it will work. He can know that if he does what he's considering he almost certainly will run a significantly faster marathon than if he doesn't.

The real question for him is whether trying to get under 2:20 seems a worthwhile thing even if the effort only gets him under 2:30 or even 2:50. If he'd feel like he wasted all those years and all those miles if he came away with a best of 2:31 or 2:26 or 2:45 then he shouldn't do it. But if he'd feel good knowing he gave everything he had to see if he could get under 2:20, if he thinks that as an old man he'd regret not having a go at that, then he should.

You don't need to be talented for the Marathon.

I ran 4:50/10:13 in HS and never ran in college. Afterwards spent a few years increasing my mileage. 50mpw, 60mpw,...ended up at 130mpw (pretty much all slow joggin) and ran 2:17.

The Marathon is a very special distance, hence all the successful Japanese runners who are, otherwise, slow.

crazy raisin wrote:

see "Running to the Limits"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzyMwrm_oNU

Is the rest of this on youtube? They only have parts 1 & 2 up.

bangalangadanga wrote:

Is the rest of this on youtube? They only have parts 1 & 2 up.

Hi bangalangadanga!

On Part 2's comments it says Part 3 will come out at the end of May.

The "talent" required is mostly the ability to log lots of miles without getting injured...

I don't think 2:20 is that hard. lot's of guys could do it if they were willing to put in the miles and go after it. Most are too impatient and don't want to do the work .

I had three college teammates who ran 2:21 -2:22 while never breaking 31:00 on the track. My senior year in college I ran 2:23 in what was a terrible race for me, really just went through the motions the last 6 miles of that race because it seemed so slow, didn't realize that it was as fast as it was. Unfortunately never did another one due to injuries etc.. (i was only a 9:50 HS 2 miler, did break 9:00 in college but still, no superstar)

There were lot's of guys back in the late 70's and early 80's running 2:15 plus who weren't that fast, Roland Davide from RI ran 2:15 and he was a 30:30 guy, lot's of guys like that back then, willing to run the miles.

Go back and look at the US lists from the that period, Steve Benson was 41st in the US in '81 with a 2:14:01

2:20 is a 5:20 point mile pace!

I was a 2:23 Marathoner on 55 MPW--a 5:28 Point Mile Pace.

As for comparisons, I ran 9:22 for the 2-Mile in HS in 1976. 2:23 was under the World Best for Women back in 1982 when I ran the 2:23! I also ran 2:24.

I ran a 30:45 for 10K Cross Country in the 1978 NCAA Regionals, and various 24:40\'s for FULL 5 MILE X-C courses against Division 1 Schools in the late 70\'s.

I say 2:20 is a very good time.

Nerds wrote:

The "talent" required is mostly the ability to log lots of miles without getting injured...

Yup. And a healthy portion of mental strength to gut it out when it hurts.

Well done. Good point about multiple kinds of talent. As I see it you need the following kinds of talent to break 2:20 -

1) Durability - to survive the required training

2) Mental - to keep the dream alive over many years

3) Body type - a sumo wrestler isn't going to break 2:20

4) VO2Max - at least average for the population

Also need the right race - know a guy who tried twice a year - took him 5 years to break 2:20.