Big 12 Women's 5000, girls asked to step off track.

I just scored from the slow heat at conference in the 3k. This happens frequently. But I guess my points don't count because I was just having a "fun run" in the slower heat huh? And yes, I run in an extremely competitive distance conference.

derrrrrrrr wrote:

why would you do that when only a limited number can score points. you'd have a race where no one scores...its a conference meet, not a fun run

Track Official Buzz wrote:

it's not an issue if the officials are competent. Oh wait . . . . this is the typical track official we're talking about. Never mind.

How many years have you volunteered as a track official?

Oh, really?

Then STFU.

worst poster wrote:

Institute a lower qualifying std if you want a smaller field.

Agreed. e.g. If the race is consistently won in 16-low, and you don't want lapped runners, don't make the damn QT 18-high.

In my old conference, I think all but one of the girls got lapped in the indoor 5000 one year and some were lapped 7 times. They really got in the way. I would say change the qualifying though, not pull people out,

george oscar bluth wrote:

It's a conference championship meet - the point is to accumulate conference points, not to let Jane Doe run a pr.

That is a very sad philosophy. I would stay away from any school where the coaches thought more of points than they did of the young people they were supposed to be coaching.

FogRunner wrote:

They don't do it in the Olmpics, and they didn't. do it in Billy Mills' Tokyo 10,000 meters.

The meet is robbing them of an opportunity for satisfaction.

Perhaps we should make officials pass a fitness and body fat test to prove they are fit to represent our sport.

The Olympics is not a 'scored meet' with points down to 8th place. It also now has qualifying standards and is outdoors, which has more room.

In a number of conferences they run two heats indoors, with the placement based on qualifying. If you have not run, you get the slow heat even if you are the conference record holder (from a different year). It is one reason that they often have them run at least a low-key race to get placement.

In the Big Ten meet, Harun Abda did not have a qualifying mark in the 600 and ended up in the same heat as Casimir Loxsom. Since there are many heats, the qualifying is winners plus next four fastest. As such, he qualified with a 'q', not a Q and was relegated to the slower heat in the final. It probably would have resulted in the same outcome (1:15.80 for second behind CL's CL of 1:15.46 (?). MN just did not take care to have him run a 600.

John Steven Akhwari

Funny, because I am a coach and my number 1 priority is developing my student athletes into being able to have success in their endeavors in life.

You find that restricting one meet a year to the individuals who are going to impact the conference standings to be insincere?

One thing that nobody has brought up is the POSSIBILITY that a teammate could help a runner vying for the win, and hinder some others. Maybe you don't have much experience, and have not seen this classic race where JUST THIS VERY THING happened:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVOJhGOU6MI

[/quote]

Whoever posted that video, Thanks!

What a scandal- filled life Khalid Skah has led. Check his bio on Wiki.

ukathleticscoach wrote:In track races all around the world timekeepers have no problem timing lapped runners from big to small meets.

As someone who has helped official at many, many meets on indoor 200m tracks, I can assure you that 3000m (let alone 5000m) races with significant lapping are a complete nightmare. It seems very easy until you actually try to do it. Realistically, you need close to one official per runner to ensure you keep things straight -- but of course, it's hard to make sure you have that many volunteer officials. Hard to imagine why, given the love and respect they get from the athletes...

Meanwhile, elsewhere on Letsrun, posters are complaining that Rupp would have broken 7:30 if he hadn't had to lap some runners near the end. There's always something to complain about!

'As someone who has helped official at many, many meets on indoor 200m tracks, I can assure you that 3000m (let alone 5000m) races with significant lapping are a complete nightmare.'

Fair enough, although timekeepers like yourself usually seem to do a good job of it. Runners should be able to cope with overtaking lapped runners, maybe if there is a big bunhc its' a problem

Maybe there should be a time restriction on the races?

Keep up the officiating work ,an under appreciated job and there is always a shortage

26mi235 wrote:

400m on a 200m track is two laps down. At that point they are merely interfering with the runners that count. This is a championship meet, not a kumbyah session.

then don't invite them in the first place. qualify for the race! if you let 'em in, let 'em race.

Hardly Kumbayah. As a freshman (in the Big XII Conference) I was asked to step off the track in the 5000 after being lapped, 300 meter track, and I was on sub 14:45 pace. Adam Goucher won in 13:38.

What part of 'it is the Conference meet' don't you understand? They do not get to 'invite' anyone. There are a set of rules for entry and often this set does not require an entry mark because athletes will not necessarily have competed in all of the relevant events. In the Big Ten meet, second in the 600 in 1:15.80 was a runner that had no entry time.

Doc Holliday wrote:

Hardly Kumbayah. As a freshman (in the Big XII Conference) I was asked to step off the track in the 5000 after being lapped, 300 meter track, and I was on sub 14:45 pace. Adam Goucher won in 13:38.

Who doesn't understand CHAMPIONSHIP?!?!?

Boohoo, mofo. Perhaps you should have chosen a different school...one that wasn't in a conference with national caliber athletes. Development is designed to make competitive athletes at the conference or national level.

In the Big XII, these are the same.in another conference you can go to not get lapped. At least Saina didn't run 15:20 & lap the entire field.

Field events get dumped on at every track meet. Holding the competition up for a race, Hammer throw getting eliminated from Diamond League, or even stopping s competition in the MIDDLE of finals for the National anthem, which is played at the "beginning" of the running events even though the meet started hours prior with field events. Now people are supposed to feel sorry that they're not subjected to longer than what they have to be of watching people turn left?? Kudos Big 12 and every conference like them...keep the event moving.

Lapped runners who negative split can score in a conference meet. You are an idiot, this rule REMOVES SCORING RUNNERS from the track. People 200m behind the leader can easily score, this is a fact! Stop pretending that you know what you are talking about.

crazy raisin wrote:

People are forgetting that this is a conference championship, which means:

1) every team probably gets at least n competitors, no time standard

2) you don't run it for a time trial or PR

3) no point in multiple heats

Everyone knew this going in (or should have) and entered anyways. If you want to run a 17:30 PR you'll have to do it in one of the other perfectly good indoor meets, where you'll probably have a better field to do it in anyways.

J.R. wrote:

george oscar bluth wrote:

It's a conference championship meet - the point is to accumulate conference points, not to let Jane Doe run a pr.

That is a very sad philosophy. I would stay away from any school where the coaches thought more of points than they did of the young people they were supposed to be coaching.

This is a D-I college though, not a high school dual meet. While you should care about those you coach, at a conference championship, you need to go for points.

Would you say the same about a college football coach who didn't play all of the team's players because he cared more about the points (winning) than making sure they were all playing?

Trollist wrote:

This is what they do in the Big-12 5000m. You fall behind by 400m, you're out.

The winning time was 16:07. How in the world would someone on pace for sub-17 be over 400 m behind?!

"A few of them were on PR/sub-17:00 pace before being asked to step off the track. Is this right or wrong?"

I don't think that anyone could get pulled off based on this policy if they were at anything much under 17:30.