Why did Steve Magness leave Nike and Alberto Salazar? A theory....

I'm surprised they brought him along in the first place. It was obviously regretted if they let him go so quickly. Someone must have been fooled by the blog and twitter account that he actually had something to bring to the table. Sports-scientist? Yeah, right. There's no way high level athletes will respect a young guy who's accomplished nothing yet as a coach and who thinks he knows it all.

How many years of coaching experience did he have? Where did he coach before? What were the results? What level of USATF has he achieved?

I can think of dozens of experienced high school and college coaches in my area I'd hire over this guy.

it's coming....

MO and is andrenaline vial at the Olympics, goucher leaving because she didnt want to continue to dope while having a family, rupp micro dosing, amy yoder begely calling AlSal when testers were on the way since they go down the list alphabetically and immediately getting saline drips going for Rupp and MO, Mo cheating on his wife while in pdx and al using his own kid as a guinea pig to see how long products are in the system.

doesnt anyone find it odd why Jerrys boys have such a hatred for anyone in salazars group and they are 100% separate? They know whats going on, dont approve but are all cashing checks from the same company.

a main author of the biggest running book in the last 15 years is up their writing a story along with other publications who have sniffed it out as well.

newenglander wrote:

Have any of you read this?

Written May 7, 1999 by Albero Salazar:

http://law.duke.edu/sites/default/files/migrated_files/dl_file-sportscenter-salazar_4.pdf

Page 2, Alberto says:

" I believe that it is currently difficult to be

among the top 5 in the world in any of the distance events without using EPO or Human

Growth Hormone "

Why would he say that? how would you explain Mo and Rupp going 1-2 in London?

First off, most of this thread is just speculation on an anonymous forum but we have always erred on the side of letting people speculate when it comes to doping as we believe it leads to a cleaner sport.

There is no presumption of innocence for anyone in the sport. Someone knock on your door with no notice (at least for Olympic sports, not the NCAA and others) and you have to go in the bathroom, drop your pants, turn and face them and pee in a cup.

We get complaints from athletes and coaches for this type of thread, but we hope it helps them go out of their way to convince others they are clean. Solinsky got tired of the speculation after his 26:59 10k and I think said he was up for 3rd parties storing his samples.

As for the Duke paper, I asked Alberto about at the Olympics, he had a very good response. He pointed out that anti-doping was not nearly as good then. USADA did not even exist then.

I've been wanting to do an anti-doping piece, related to the Olympics but have been putting it off. I could include what Alberto said about the Duke paper because anti-doping has come a tremendous long way since 1999. No longer do athletes just take EPO and figure they won't get caught.

The fight isn't over. Related to the Olympics I think more needs to be done on TUEs and making that info public. Jos Hermens and many Dutch people made a big stink after the 10k about thyroid medication. See:

For the record you can take thyroid medication with a TUE. However, the implication is athletes are abusing this process. Thus I think who is on thyroid medication should be public. Unless its a sensitive drug (say for an STD) I think the TUE should be public. I think blood profiles should be public.

Of course what the article does not mention is that many athletes including Ryan Hall are on thyroid medication see

If thyroid problems are a huge problem for serious endurance athletes I think the public would benefit from knowing this info. Runners on here would know to get their thyroid checked. I want as level a playing field as possible so that if you're a top athlete and you see many of the guys ahead of you are on thyroid medication you think that maybe you should get on it or at least start the dialogue as to whether there should be a TUE for it. That is what happened with asthma medication. Ultimately I want the best athlete winning, not the one who has the best doctors. Making TUEs public I believe leads to a cleaner sport.

This is the exact story (OK, haven't heard every one of these details) floating around several credible circles. No one is willing to shit where they eat though...yet...

wejo wrote:

First off, most of this thread is just speculation on an anonymous forum but we have always erred on the side of letting people speculate when it comes to doping as we believe it leads to a cleaner sport.

There is no presumption of innocence for anyone in the sport. Someone knock on your door with no notice (at least for Olympic sports, not the NCAA and others) and you have to go in the bathroom, drop your pants, turn and face them and pee in a cup.

Do you really have to pee in front of them? You can't close the door to the bathroom? They get to see your wee wee? That seems like a huge invasion of privacy.

andre dawson wrote:

MO and is andrenaline vial at the Olympics

------------

a main author of the biggest running book in the last 15 years is up their writing a story along with other publications who have sniffed it out as well.

Any more information about the adrenaline vial? Is this common?

And who's the writer?

come on wrote:

Fluffy wrote:

Any coach should try to get their athletes as close to doping as they can without breaking the rules.

well that's just simply not true.

Why not? Don't you want your athletes to do the best they can? If it's legal, why wouldn't you?

somewhat shocked wrote:

Do you really have to pee in front of them? You can't close the door to the bathroom? They get to see your wee wee? That seems like a huge invasion of privacy.

Yes you pee facing them. Yes it is a huge invasion of privacy but it has to be done this way.

It is so you don't stash fake urine in a bag.

Athletics West, especially after Salazar joined, was more a pharmacy than a team.

And don't forget who Slaney's coach was when she was busted.

"The systematic use of performance-enhancing drugs in sports for more than 50 years has punted performance standards clear out of sight. So far out of sight that no human can attain them without chemical assistance."

- Charlie Francis, 2000

was there wrote:

Ugly crap from you. There were many clean runners on Athletics West. Don’t pull many down with your dirty crap statement.

Starting in the early eighties - maybe earlier - doctors were brought in, or, I should say, 'doctors'. Drugs were available and their use was strongly encouraged. You didn't have to take them, and, you're right, was there, not everyone who ran for AW did, but, you probably didn't last long on that team if you didn't. People either left because they got fed up with the culture, or their unwillingness to cheat was taken as a sign that they weren't fully committed to fulfilling their potential and justifying Nike's investment.

As AlSal states in the Duke paper:

"Most of these are legitimate practices to improve performance. They include practices such as:

Asthma medications and other medicines that may or may not treat sports related ailments. Sometimes these medications need to be approved by a regulating authority and their medical needs must be confirmed by a physician."

May or may not treat sports related ailments...

This is all you need to know about Salazar, Nike and NOP.

What do you think this says? Read it again. Get back to us.

First off, you tell me what "healthy runner" has random heart attacks! Clearly, Sal's PED use has caught up to him. No doubt that the NOP is up to no good. Plus, who would go from coaching "Pro" athletes to "collegiate" athletes. There is no doubt there is something fishy. Also, I find it personally odd why many athletes come in and "leave" when they are at the heart an soul of running.

jasonsdeli wrote:

First off, you tell me what "healthy runner" has random heart attacks! Clearly, Sal's PED use has caught up to him. No doubt that the NOP is up to no good. Plus, who would go from coaching "Pro" athletes to "collegiate" athletes. There is no doubt there is something fishy. Also, I find it personally odd why many athletes come in and "leave" when they are at the heart an soul of running.

Yes, healthy runners have random heart attacks. In fact, it seems unfortunately the case that extreme running does not help with prolonged life, just modest running -- there are lots of disputes here but your 'natural assumption' is flat out wrong.

As for much of the stuff here; it seems like a bunch of stuff that people believe and that might be the case but show no particularly strong evidence that there is anything there.

As for the 1999 situation versus now, 1999 is when WADA came in. If you run regressions on virtually every event you will see a decline in marks (say, take the 20th best or the average of the top 20 performers...). From that point generally small improvements then continue the long-run historical trends of a mature sport.

Still now answered wrote:

I still want to know how Magness dropped 13 or 14 seconds in his senior year as well as his two teammates that dropped about 10 in their senior years too? All those miles, hard hard work? his mumbo jumbo genius? Come on there was something going on there too and all 3 never improved off those hs times? Isn't that curious. Dropped from a 1:57 to 1:52 also. Yea right.

In high school, most would call this training during the winter.

But wasn't Alberto coaching Mary Slaney?

coach d wrote:

As I said on a different thread, I see this as a stunning indictment of both Rupp and Salazar:

I argued that fantastic, mind-blowing performances could occur without the need for such drugs. My professor was doubtful, but based on my own experience training with Alan Webb, who was only two years off running his magical 3:46 mile, and Moise Joseph, who would go on to make the 800m semifinals at the world championships in the 800m that summer, I knew for a fact that there were still top level athletes who did things the right way.

This coming from a guy that COACHED Galen Rupp. He specifically mentions Webb and a Kenyan as athletes who "did things the right way," but no mention of Rupp or Salazar.

I don't there's much more that needs to be said.

but based on my own experience training with Alan Webb

When you emphasize the correct parts it reads a little different... just saying.