please help stop this mess wrote:
Done.
Thank you. Good bye.
please help stop this mess wrote:
Done.
Thank you. Good bye.
super** wrote:
The IAAF rules are clear on a tie. Coin flip,period.
Actually there are no IAAF rules for this. They are selecting the 100 meter Olympic team. USATF chooses to do this by way of having the Olympic Trials. But according the IAAF, they could do it any way they want, as long as the athletes meet the IAAF qualifying standards.
USATF would be breaking IAAF rules if they declared Robbie Andrews the winner of the 1500 yesterday. They would not be breaking IAAF rules if they declared that Robbie Andrews would be on the team for London and Andrew Wheating would not.
She was clearly upset about the run off when I saw her on the tv interview about it, which is ridiculous because I believed the main timing guy had Tarmoh the winner over Felix and he should have declared that definitively. The teams were to be decided when the events were over and this 100 m team was not.
If you want to be bullied in front of your running peers just go to the Plano Pacers running club in Plano Texas where a big jerk of a guy pushes around disabled and able bodied race participants with threats, hostility, intimidation and the like. And the next race is to benefit sex assault victims? Geez get a clue.
If you don't want to be bullied then stop them or don't participate in their events. Tarmoh for 3rd.
please help stop this mess wrote:
FinishLynx User wrote:...if I were her and was just handed the spot I'd always wonder if I really deserved it and there would be an * next to that entire Olympic experience the rest of my life.
Are you an athlete?
How would you feel about having an * next to your non-participation in your specialty event?
Yes I am an athlete, and apparently one with integrity unlike yourself.
Mr. Dr. Professor. Patrick wrote:
it is obvious by the photo-finish picture that Felix and Tarmoh did tie.
please help stop this mess wrote:
You're a clown.
A "tie" wasn't (and still isn't) obvious to the HEAD TIMER, who has called thousands of races.
.
"When I immediately looked at it, I could see their torsos and what I could see visually, it was in essence a dead heat. But then I looked at the arm position of Tarmoh which I felt was a torso coming across ahead of Allyson's Felix's torso. So I called it on the board, unofficially, as lane one Tarmoh ahead of Felix. But I immediately wanted to get a meet referee in there. In essence, I protested it myself. We had four referees come in and look it and we all decided that what we saw visually was a dead heat and at that point we called it a dead heat for third."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfAshSZ4OH8&feature=youtube_gdata_playerAfter Jeff let Jack ahead of him in the marathon, the two petitioned the AAU to let them switch events, so both would be in their better and preferred event. Jeff had made the 10,000 team, Jack the marathon team (due to Jeff's selfless step-aside).
The then-AAU refused their petition to change into their favored events. I only wish someone had proposed a coin-toss. Then they would have had a 50/50 chance.
R. U. Blind wrote:The photo clearly shows a dead heat.
No, the photo shows that Tarmoh won by a fraction of an inch. (And I'm speaking as someone who wanted Felix in the top three.)
The more I look at the photo, the more baffled I am that EVERYONE can't see it. No doubt it was an extraordinarily close finish, but it is absolutely clear that Tarmoh led at the line. Put her on the team and move on.
This thread is so dumb. Race off is absolutely the best way to do this.
US needs to change it's selection policy though. Should be first two at trials plus one other.
natosha fan wrote:
"FinishLynxUser" - just how would you feel if you had been declared the third place finisher, given a victory lap, paraded in a press conference, and THEN told - wait a minute, things have changed and you did not make the Olympic team in the 100M? I think that with all that Tarmoh has been damn classy. USATF is a bad joke.
I'd feel upset. So what? Does that mean I should be awarded the spot, based on how I feel?
If you want to avoid anything like this from happening then you wouldn't announce results until they've been confirmed. Then our sport could even be less fan-friendly.
Also, all of the above happened more than a week ago. She needs to realize it was ruled a tie and that's not going to change.
I hate to break the sad news to you but IAAF has rules on ties. I will make it simple, for each and everyone for I tried to read the rules for my own benefit, ( I have trying to fight ignorance of the sport I love)First and foremost all races should be timed to 1/100 of a second (exceptions might occur for longer races but rarely), and then (a) If there is a tie, the photo judge shall award times up to 1/1000th of a second, and if that shall not be possible, then tied runners if they qualify will all be placed in the next round but, in case of ranking (such as Olympic trials) a draw shall be made, in this case a draw is a flip of the coin or the drawing of straws. No where is it written that a run off be done, the USATF could have solved this problem in 10 minutes after the race. IAAF rules can be found online. They take some reading but you will be smarter on the issue than most people including television pundits
asdgfh wrote:
super** wrote:The IAAF rules are clear on a tie. Coin flip,period.
Actually there are no IAAF rules for this. They are selecting the 100 meter Olympic team. USATF chooses to do this by way of having the Olympic Trials. But according the IAAF, they could do it any way they want, as long as the athletes meet the IAAF qualifying standards.
USATF would be breaking IAAF rules if they declared Robbie Andrews the winner of the 1500 yesterday. They would not be breaking IAAF rules if they declared that Robbie Andrews would be on the team for London and Andrew Wheating would not.
FinishLynx User wrote:
Yes I am an athlete, and apparently one with integrity unlike yourself.
Because I think they should be given the opportunity to negotiate a MUTUALLY agreeable date, not bullied into a circu$ for NBC's swimming audience?
Yeah, I'm the one without integrity here.
natosha fan wrote:
"FinishLynxUser" - just how would you feel if you had been declared the third place finisher, given a victory lap, paraded in a press conference, and THEN told - wait a minute, things have changed and you did not make the Olympic team in the 100M? I think that with all that Tarmoh has been damn classy. USATF is a bad joke.
asdgfh wrote:
I'd feel upset.
Guy, you switched handles.
As long as you're showing some empathy, maybe you want to revisit your name-calling against a US Olympic team member?
super** wrote:
The IAAF rules are clear on a tie. Coin flip,period.
And the NFHS requires a run-off.
To be honest, I can hardly believe USATF hasn't accounted for this before. And their solution doesn't account for a three-way (or more) tie for third, which in my opinion should be a run-off.
I did not tell a lie. A lie is a false statement with deliberate intent to deceive. As I said earlier, I misread the article.
More importantly though, you just completely ruined your argument by admitting the call took half a dozen officials an hour to make.
Please show me in any of the articles where Tarmoh mentions anything about wanting to do a run off at a later date or do the coin toss? Maybe I'm missing this, but the impression I got from the SI/CNN article was that she thinks she should just get the spot and feels badgered that she has to do a run off to get it. She never really says what she wants.
My solution assuming that both of them would be racing before the olympics is just make sure they get in the same heat of the 100 at a IAAF meet and have that break the tie, that way it falls into their current schedule of races but would be at a time when both are fresher than today.
super** wrote:
I hate to break the sad news to you but IAAF has rules on ties.
I will make it simple, for each and everyone for I tried to read the rules for my own benefit, ( I have trying to fight ignorance of the sport I love)
First and foremost all races should be timed to 1/100 of a second (exceptions might occur for longer races but rarely), and then
(a) If there is a tie, the photo judge shall award times up to 1/1000th of a second, and if that shall not be possible, then tied runners if they qualify will all be placed in the next round but, in case of ranking (such as Olympic trials) a draw shall be made, in this case a draw is a flip of the coin or the drawing of straws.
No where is it written that a run off be done, the USATF could have solved this problem in 10 minutes after the race. IAAF rules can be found online. They take some reading but you will be smarter on the issue than most people including television pundits
asdgfh wrote:Actually there are no IAAF rules for this. They are selecting the 100 meter Olympic team. USATF chooses to do this by way of having the Olympic Trials. But according the IAAF, they could do it any way they want, as long as the athletes meet the IAAF qualifying standards.
USATF would be breaking IAAF rules if they declared Robbie Andrews the winner of the 1500 yesterday. They would not be breaking IAAF rules if they declared that Robbie Andrews would be on the team for London and Andrew Wheating would not.
You're not understanding my point at all. You list the IAAF rules for breaking a tie in a RACE. The USATF is picking a team for London. They are free to use the IAAF rules for breaking the tie in a race, or use whatever process they want to pick the team. I'm not saying they are handling this well, just that they aren't obligated to flip a coin to pick the spot, just because that is the IAAF rule for a RACE.
"When I spoke to Jeneba (on Sunday), I got from her that she was uncomfortable with the idea of a runoff and a coin toss and that she was no longer at peace with the idea," Kimberly Holland, the agent, told ESPN's Josina Anderson. "After she spoke with me, Jeneba told Allyson how she felt. My understanding of how Jeneba left that conversation was that she wished her good luck and was conceding the 100-meter spot to Allyson."
I don't get her point, I think she is trying to badger Felix into conceding to her because she feels bad. Come on, yes it sucks that there wasn't a rule in place but I bet if there had been one it'd been pretty damn close to what they put in because it makes sense!
I think Tarmoh looks really bad in this whole thing. The race was declared a tie (after many hours of thoughtful deliberation) and now she wants her spot handed to her? If I were training with a world-class athlete like Felix, and she tried to give me a spot, I would say NO WAY JOSE I'm gonna beat you fair and square and earn my spot on the 100m team. She will be on the relay also so why not win your spot like everyone else.
I agree with you on no rules on team selection, different countries use different rules. But the US rules are the first three across the line, assuming they all qualified and therefore the need to know the first three, and there is a rule for that...
We might end up going into a never ending loop of logic here but let me try a again, based on you argument "...You list the IAAF rules for breaking a tie in a RACE...", well, this was a race and there was a tie. The USATF as a member of IAAF used all IAAF rules during the trials, timing, distance, testing etc, additionally the USATF is part of IAAF and played a role in making the rules, so why not use that rule to break the tie... and then they can select their team whichever way they want after that...
I am amazed by the number of people even television pundits, who have not bothered to read the rule book that USATF ascribes to on how to break the tie, and since they were looking for the third place finisher, they could use the same rules IAAF uses in case of a tie. Because, those will be rules used by IAAF in case there was a tie in London for one spot. Most of all, I am incensed by the fact that USATF either deliberately or wrongly claimed there were no rules to break the tie..
Why not, the say there shall be a draw, a draw can involve more that two parties...
toodarnloud1998 wrote:
super** wrote:The IAAF rules are clear on a tie. Coin flip,period.
And the NFHS requires a run-off.
To be honest, I can hardly believe USATF hasn't accounted for this before. And their solution doesn't account for a three-way (or more) tie for third, which in my opinion should be a run-off.