25-35% is the common percentage thrown around in the field. Many will make a proposal asking for more, and then negotiate down to the 25-35% range. If someone is able to negotiate a director down further, then good for them, but I have not seen it.
25-35% is the common percentage thrown around in the field. Many will make a proposal asking for more, and then negotiate down to the 25-35% range. If someone is able to negotiate a director down further, then good for them, but I have not seen it.
I can't speak to the race director's take, but Sean Ryan was interviewed for Runner's World (last year?) on the break-down of the race entry fees were spent. Here's the link:
http://fitbie.msn.com/get-fitter/race-fees-where-your-money-goes?ocid=nlxgfr
jsdietsche wrote:
Here's a link to more info from the local paper.
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/section/2012marathonWe saw my wife at Mile 4 and then had to wait probably 20 min until there was a big enough gap to cross the course (had the kids in a bike trailer). It was an eye-opening experience. We saw some runners completely drenched, walking, looking exhausted. This was 4 miles in, temps in the mid 70s with humidity in the mid 60% range. Sweet Jesus, people! Know your limitations!
4 miles in, the temperatures in the 70s & people are walking? Why are people even entering marathons? I'm really impressed with that t-shirt & fancy finishers medal you bought with that ridiculous entry fee.
I ran the half at Green Bay this year and it was pretty brutal.
There's 2 issues to remember here. One, the climate up here is around 60 degrees right now.
Here's the average temps the past 4 months.
Jan - 20
Feb - 26
Mar - 45 (we had an usually warm March)
Apr - 44
May last year, average temp was 57.
When you do all your training in colder temps, trying to run in 80 degrees with humidity is going to crush you. Had this race been in the end of August, I'm willing to bet that there wouldn't have been an issue as most Wisconsinites would be much more acclimated to the weather and would have been just fine.
Two - While the temp wasn't overly terrible, after the 4 or 5 mile mark, you were directly in the sun, no clouds with little wind. It just bakes you.
That entire argument about how other people race in this all the time is nonsense. Fly here from Honolulu and I'll take you on a 10 mile run when it's 8 out with a windchill of 0. We'll see how tough you are when your dick freezes, your face is numb, you've taken a digger on some ice, and you can't breathe because it stings.
Point being, it doesn't matter what the temp is, if people are dropping and the safety of the runners is even remotely questionable, you pull the plug. It was the right move.
Giddy wrote:
I ran the half at Green Bay this year and it was pretty brutal.
There's 2 issues to remember here. One, the climate up here is around 60 degrees right now.
Here's the average temps the past 4 months.
Jan - 20
Feb - 26
Mar - 45 (we had an usually warm March)
Apr - 44
May last year, average temp was 57.
When you do all your training in colder temps, trying to run in 80 degrees with humidity is going to crush you. Had this race been in the end of August, I'm willing to bet that there wouldn't have been an issue as most Wisconsinites would be much more acclimated to the weather and would have been just fine.
Two - While the temp wasn't overly terrible, after the 4 or 5 mile mark, you were directly in the sun, no clouds with little wind. It just bakes you.
That entire argument about how other people race in this all the time is nonsense. Fly here from Honolulu and I'll take you on a 10 mile run when it's 8 out with a windchill of 0. We'll see how tough you are when your dick freezes, your face is numb, you've taken a digger on some ice, and you can't breathe because it stings.
Point being, it doesn't matter what the temp is, if people are dropping and the safety of the runners is even remotely questionable, you pull the plug. It was the right move.
Penguins and their excuses. :shakeshead:
"after the 4 or 5 mile mark, you were directly in the sun, no clouds with little wind. It just bakes you."
Directly in the sun? And no one to hold your hand?!
classic let's run... love it.
Where does personal responsibility come in to play? Slow your pace, take extra water...run smart! Don't count on the race director to save your ass and cancel the race for everyone. As soon as race day popped up on the 10-day forecast, it was predicted to be hot. It cheats the runners who perpared and ran a smart race to cancel the race for everyone.
In reality, I'm not even sure that I blame the RD for the in-race decision. The problem is that all these races are trying to sell the experience of finishing a 1/2 or a full. The tech t-shirt, the cool medal, and the photo of you with your arms raised in triumph as you cross the finish line. There's never any mention of the months of training you'll need to be properly prepared to run.
And just to note...I'm from Wisconsin, too. We're not all as big of pansies as this guy would make us seem. He is right about the Winter, though. You can't understand that unless you own windproof briefs...
jsdietsche wrote:
Where does personal responsibility come in to play?
Ask the ambulance chaser who'd sue the pants off of the race director if anyone got seriously ill or died.
ask the people that will sue because the people in charge of the race slammed a gate on them at the finish line. Was the course open or not? They closed the gate, opened it, closed it, opened it. It was like they were handpicking who could finish and who could not. Next year dont have a race if you are not competent enough to enact on an emergency plan or make unanimous decisions that will be enacted out by all the staff.
I hope the sponsors of this race are breathing down the necks of the staff and RD demanding answers and changes for the future.
It comes down to an overall participant safety and resource issue, and if you are comprimising either or both you have to stop the race. It's that simple. You can't survey each individual to find out if he or she is fit enough or running smart enough to continue on. You err on the side of safety every time. Often it's the fit runners who are pushing themselves the hardest out there.
It's absolute BS to say "I was fine, they should have let me continue on." A mile later, you could have been flat on your face and you wouldn't have seen it coming. No one ever does.
The right call was made and it likely wasn't even the RD who made it. He's taking orders from public safety and medical personnel at that point, and then executing a race stoppage/diversion plan that's not going to be a flawless one, no matter what, because you are dealing with runners who, in many cases, are going to ignore instructions to stop unless they are physically tackled. That's the mentality, and it's the best/worst part about runners (myself included).
The great thing is that if you lived to complain about it, you can saddle up and ride again.
duck and dodge, duck and dodge. Are you event staff? Board?
SaintsAll wrote:
It comes down to an overall participant safety and resource issue, and if you are comprimising either or both you have to stop the race. It's that simple. You can't survey each individual to find out if he or she is fit enough or running smart enough to continue on. You err on the side of safety every time. Often it's the fit runners who are pushing themselves the hardest out there.
It's absolute BS to say "I was fine, they should have let me continue on." A mile later, you could have been flat on your face and you wouldn't have seen it coming. No one ever does.
The right call was made and it likely wasn't even the RD who made it. He's taking orders from public safety and medical personnel at that point, and then executing a race stoppage/diversion plan that's not going to be a flawless one, no matter what, because you are dealing with runners who, in many cases, are going to ignore instructions to stop unless they are physically tackled. That's the mentality, and it's the best/worst part about runners (myself included).
The great thing is that if you lived to complain about it, you can saddle up and ride again.
Neither. But I do work in the event industry. There are some basic truths that you have to follow when you are planning and outdoor event.
You accept the fact that Mother Nature is going to rule the day (for better or worse) and you make decisions based first and foremost on participant safety.
And you have to remind yourself that no matter what decision you make, people are going to bitch about it.
How was making us out to be pansies? I was just pointing out that the temp wasn't that bad had it been summer and people had been more adjusted to it. A 25-30 degree jump from average and humidity is going to smack anyone in the face.
I ran smart got in a decent long run, but I passed 2 elite women late who couldn't stand and looked completely despondent... heat stroke symptoms... so don't blame it all on the out of shape schlubs who want the medal and the picture.
If you couldn't finish the half, then I would agree with just about everyone else, it wasn't so terrible that you couldn't get in, just had to adjust your plan... but running the full would have been idiotic, especially if you were trying to run hard.
...you're such a moron-goof!
Running does exist coast-to-coast, even in Green Bay WI.
"Letsrun.com," wish there was a way to taser the adolescent frustrated high school runners/joggers who constantly ridicule other's who want to run/jog, or whatever!
Those people are the ones supporting the sport with their money...remember that kids.
should CellCom consider changing the name of the event? It was not a marathon in 2011 and it was not a marathon in 2012.
How about the "CellCom Green Bay whatever it happens to be run"
or "CellCom Green Bay Sean Ryan F'up special"
"CellCom laughing stock of wisconsin run"
all of those are more fitting than CellCom Green Bay Marathon
Giddy, I grew up in Wisconsin, and although I know those temps are rarely seen much by that time of year, there has been a reasonable trend and risk of warm temperatures like that at the end of May.
Somehow, people train for and travel for warm-temperature races, successfully, all the time.
Just like people from out of state can successfully train for, say, the Arrowhead 135 or Iditarod Trail Races. Without any appendages freezing off.
What's uncanny about the GB marathon is the incredibly low bar that's now been set for ending a race prematurely: a dew point still in the 50s, and a race with plenty of fluids in the remainder of the marathon, but it had to end early because of bad preparation by the RD and runners who were marginally trained for the distance on a perfect day.
Giddy wrote:
I ran the half at Green Bay this year and it was pretty brutal.
While the temp wasn't overly terrible, after the 4 or 5 mile mark, you were directly in the sun, no clouds with little wind. It just bakes you.
The sun was out too? Did the President declare it a natural disaster area? I hope the Nat'l Guard is on the way to help out.
Author: Giddy
Subject: RE: Green Bay Marathon halted because of heat
Message:
How was making us out to be pansies? I was just pointing out that the temp wasn't that bad had it been summer and people had been more adjusted to it. A 25-30 degree jump from average and humidity is going to smack anyone in the face.
I ran smart got in a decent long run, but I passed 2 elite women late who couldn't stand and looked completely despondent... heat stroke symptoms... so don't blame it all on the out of shape schlubs who want the medal and the picture.
If you couldn't finish the half, then I would agree with just about everyone else, it wasn't so terrible that you couldn't get in, just had to adjust your plan... but running the full would have been idiotic, especially if you were trying to run hard.
-----------------------------------
My wife isn't elite by any means, but she loves running and puts in some miles. She had a goal of 9:00/mile going in, but knew at the start line that wouldn't happen. So she adjusted her pace, and was on pace to finish in ~4:10 or so. Until they told her at 18 the race was over. She walked most of the next 3, trying to sort through the chaos of differing information and decide what to do. She ended up jogging it in, finishing a little over 4:30, had a couple of beers and the finish and we went back to our hotel to shower up. Yep, pretty idiotic.
Here's something even better. I'm scheduled to run the Madison Marathon this weekend. I say "scheduled", because I just saw this:
http://www.wkow.com/story/18583597/madison-marathon-reviewing-safety-precautions-for-weekend-run
Maybe we Wisconsinites are a bunch of pansies...sigh...
it was just as bad or worse in Boston this year ,sometimes you either have to sack up or be smart and drop out,I sacked up it wasn't smart though