kpack wrote:
1. when you have coaches talk about the blood elasticity of their athletes (as renata has done), you have to know they are tinkering somehow.
Blood elasticity??? Like whoa. What was that all about?
kpack wrote:
1. when you have coaches talk about the blood elasticity of their athletes (as renata has done), you have to know they are tinkering somehow.
Blood elasticity??? Like whoa. What was that all about?
I agree, the short clip looks almost like they had already booked their return flights, and didn't follow up the story properly. However, they did confront IAAF with their findings (and allegations made by Bengt Saltin), and the IAAF Medical and Anti Doping Director Gabriel Dollé went on the record saying, almost in defense, that there are effectively no blood tests done in Kenya. That's not some accusation buy a "jealous German", but an admission right from the top, in 2012.
To those of you who did not see this, the same doctor who gave a tour of his basement doping lab and offered his services, also showed the reporters Jelimo's blood profile, and said she was one of his clients. That's not proof of doping (and we can blame Seppelt that he did not push this further), and we should probably not convict the particular individual. But like the fact that one can just walk into a shop in Nairobi that's frequented by runners, and buy EPO and HGH, it gives lie to the statement that "Doping doesn't work for Kenyans", or that it is some "third world country" where doping isn't possible.
"Sportschau", where the clip ran yesterday, is Germany's prime time national sports program - I expect there to be a full-length broadcast in a different format soon.
To be fair, Germany's public broadcaster "ARD", like many similar broadcasters, has a clear conflict of interest: working for ARD, journalists like Seppelt broke the Contador plasticiser, and the Vienna blood bank case, but ARD also has been a long-time Tour de France broadcaster, they hold the rights to the Olympics, the Biathlon etc., and have even been a co-sponsor of the notorious Telekom and T-Mobile cycling teams. Their kowtow to the German Skiing Federation, after Seppelt had implicated German biathletes in the Vienna blood bank case quoted earlier in this thread, is more a reflection of ARD's fraught integrity, than it is of Seppelt's - the federation later sued the journalist, and lost.
Seppelt clearly knows about doping practices, but he's no great undercover journalist. My hope is that some outfit with more skill in this area sees this as an opportunity to the bottom of it.
Consider this: By conservative estimates [1], EPO gives elite endurance athletes a 3% performance increase. For the 10,000m, that's at least 45 seconds, for the marathon, it's around 3 minutes. At the very top of the sport, 3% is a huge difference (much more than individual variation), so if there were both clean runners and drugged runners, you would see a dichotomy of performances. If there is no such dichotomy at the very top, it either means everyone is clean, or everyone is on drugs.
[1]
http://www.sportsscientists.com/2007/11/effect-of-epo-on-performance-who.html
Those in the know have told you this for a long time.
Good that people wake up.
Track is more dirty than cycling now. In cycling they are at least trying to be strict with testing.
ukathleticscoach,
You sure did butcher the English language with that post.
Frau Blucher wrote:
meine Mutter gar nicht zu Aldi gehen
Gunter glieben glauchen globen.
Alright, I've got something to say. It's better to burn out than to fade away.
Makau who is mentioned in the article was based in the UK for a number of seasons about 7-8 year ago, during that time he never showed anywhere near the kind of performances he has gone on to produce. He was a 14 flat 29 -29.30 5k-10k guy and often had his work cut out to beat domestic opposition... suddenly he's back and he's running that pace for 26 miles... come on.
Ok a recent visitor to Kenya if I'm correct is employee number one.
Add color please of your observations.
Wake up and smell the coffee for f... sake , you cannot keep saying we are kenyan so we are clean , some of you have been caught , some have been hiden its well known that there are a number of ''dactari'' in and around Nairobi who can get EPO for $10 a shot , id WADA go in they have to report to AK and then all coaches ''names'' are tipped off ...you can arrive in Nairobi and be called within minutes if your face is known ....i think the German guy is spot on but should have waited untill he had concrete evidence ...but that said seems IAAF/WADA etdc dont five a f... especially in Olypmic year as it might threaten their fat paychecks .....
Do the math wrote:
Consider this: By conservative estimates [1], EPO gives elite endurance athletes a 3% performance increase. For the 10,000m, that's at least 45 seconds, for the marathon, it's around 3 minutes. At the very top of the sport, 3% is a huge difference (much more than individual variation), so if there were both clean runners and drugged runners, you would see a dichotomy of performances. If there is no such dichotomy at the very top, it either means everyone is clean, or everyone is on drugs.
[1]
http://www.sportsscientists.com/2007/11/effect-of-epo-on-performance-who.html
That's the dumbest damned thing I think that I've ever read.
Big E, Big P, Big O wrote:
Frau Blucher wrote:meine Mutter gar nicht zu Aldi gehen
Gunter glieben glauchen globen.
Alright, I've got something to say. It's better to burn out than to fade away.
Doch, deine Mudder ist bei Aldi. Und zwar ist hat sie sich im Drehkreuz verlaufen.
ukathleticscoach wrote:
My wife has some intersting observations on athletes. She does not follow running in any way but has worked with people with drug problems. She saw one prominent current world record holder and announced 'he's on drugs' She does not even know about PED's and just thought they were on smack or something but 'the eyes have it' That came like a bolt from the blue!
What in the world are you even talking about?
I'm sure your wife is a genius, when it comes to picking out dopers by looking at them..maybe she should run WADA and save them all millions in silly testing equipment?
@running_comment wrote:
kpack wrote:1. when you have coaches talk about the blood elasticity of their athletes (as renata has done), you have to know they are tinkering somehow.
Blood elasticity??? Like whoa. What was that all about?
had a few drinks when i wrote that. he was actually talking about how kenyans can greatly expand their blood volume, i believe.
Broken English wrote:
ukathleticscoach,
You sure did butcher the English language with that post.
I bet you pressed spell check on that one sentence, I was busy!
He was talking about Kenyans' hematocrit dropping as they get fit because plasma volume increases. This happens for everyone, though.
follow the money ;-)
luke s wrote:
They can find microscopic pieces of the bag the blood was in, pumping round your veins. Says Frank Shorter.
It's not pieces of the bag, it's plasticiser.
wife has some intersting observations on athletes. She does not follow running in any way but has worked with people with drug problems. She saw one prominent current world record holder and announced 'he's on drugs' She does not even know about PED's and just thought they were on smack or something but 'the eyes have it' That came like a bolt from the blueWhoa ! She's a fortune teller !What she say bout 12/12/12 ,ass clown ?
ukathleticscoach wrote:
'Of course Kenyans dope. And so do American distance runners. Both countries have had people test positive'
I think there are less from Kenya than say for example from a country like Morocco for one reason only. Those born and living at altitude have less need for EPO. Of course you will still get lesser athletes who need it and others who just cheat
You also need to look at East Africans moving countries and away from living at altitude Even those who only fail one test!!!
Other on here were always going on about some doctor working with them, he was not a 'real' doctor but had a Phd in some unrelated subject. Of course some will still be at it.
But the fact remains that if you look at true world class performers caught doping you don't get so many Kenyans, virtually none and on Ethiopian side none. Of course some will be lucky but the law of averages dictates some will be busted
The womems side is different because steroids will work more on all distances.
Its interesting that for a countries like UK and USA who's track and field success is almost entirely sprint and power based and everyone know knows half of that was based on doping that those here are so quick to judge. Do only American and British sprinters cheat. If the distance runners don't it's mainly because they would still be too slow to make it worth it or even get tested
My wife has some intersting observations on athletes. She does not follow running in any way but has worked with people with drug problems. She saw one prominent current world record holder and announced 'he's on drugs' She does not even know about PED's and just thought they were on smack or something but 'the eyes have it' That came like a bolt from the blue!
A sprinter told me that a lot of dopers get spots on their shoulders and to check when they are in the start position. They even make the vest wider over the shoulder now! Ok that might just be a theory
Look out for our own CO, sub 50 & sh'e found something new which will make her miss important drug tests. Yeah yeah she happened to change her training 3 times and by coincidence on just those 3 days the testers showed up. BS!
ukathleticscoach wrote:
Broken English wrote:ukathleticscoach,
You sure did butcher the English language with that post.
I bet you pressed spell check on that one sentence, I was busy!
Nope.
I've read through Renato's posts for, I guess now, years. When he began to talk about each of his athletes' blood and how he has tested their blood,I was suspicious. He's taking blood? At regular intervals? Come on...
This is not surprising to me. Time will tell. I would imagine if there are strict doping controls in London, the Kenyans will not compete well. At least, whoever they send will not compete well.