WSJ article on pro-runner salaries

bling don't sing wrote:

Newsflash: they are not in it (primarily) for the money.

Really??? I ask you how many would be (only) running if they didn't get payed? They would be pursing careers and other ways to MAKE MOney. Whether it be through announcing on TV for the very gifted to coaching. I would guestimate 95% would not be "only" running.

Being a professional runner is certainly a gift. to be able to do something you love, and be one of the best at it,, AND get payed is truly special. Not very many are so fortunate. 50k a year to try and excel at the sport of your choice is truly a gift.

We are largely to blame for the lack of money in the sport. I have to ask Ben Bruce... what do you do for Nike that they should pay you more? What is your value proposition? Are you headlining their commercials? Do you have a shoe named after you that kids are buying because of you? Do you sell apparel? If your value to your employer is nothing other then to run fast in obscure meets like USATFs, Stanford, etc, then how does what you do even pay for what you currently get?

There are 2 issues to discuss here. One is Endorsements and the other is Salary and Bonus.

Endorsements:

I would think there would be some smart athletes out there trying to build a tracking system of what they bring in for their sponsors. If you can say, "I'll bring in an additional 10mm in sales, and I want 10% of that" bam... you have your mil dollar endorsement.

Who here has gone to Dunkin Donuts and said, "pay me to run... to be in your commercials... to send the message that you can eat donuts and drink coffee and still be fit". Hello! American Runs on Dunkin? If a smart, motivated runner can't capitalize on that brand, then that is just sad.

Same with Subway. What a perfect corporation to try and get as a sponsor.

Ryan Hall has an endorsement deal with Vizio and Saturn... I can't believe he is a smarter businessman, in all his flightiness, then the rest of our elites. But apparently he is.

Salary and Bonus:

Who pays MLB, NBA, NFL players? The owners of the team. How can an owner afford to pay millions? Because the team is self funding and is a business/investment in and of itself. Why is the team self funding? Because they sell out games, merchandise, etc.

At the end of the day, our elites bring in very little money. How many people show up at the New Balance meets in Boston? At the Midwest meets that they have? Other then the athletes, what is the attendance like?

What is the attendance for a Mets game? 20,000 is a POOR attendance.

What are merchandise sales like? Can I even buy a Meb Jesey? Can I buy a Nick Symmonds Jersey? Would I want to? (Answer is no to both).

However, I would buy a David Wright or Johan Santana Jersey.

Bottom line, let's say Woody Johnson (owner of the Jets for those who don't know) had a momentary lapse of judgement and went 20 solid track and field athletes (the Ben Bruce's of the world) and said, "I will supply you a coach, training facility, medics, insurance, etc and I will pay you 250-500k annually with incentives".

Ok... now... how would Woody Johnson not only break even on that investment, but make money on it? What is the business model? Put on meets that no one goes to? Sell merchandise that no-one buys?

I think this second point is a very important one when people try and compare our sport to MLB and NFL. The players in those sports are paid by the owners, not by sponsors. Sponsors are a different revenue stream for the athletes.

The owners pay the players so they can make money off them... or at least break-even and enjoy being able to say they are an owner.

Who is going to be an owner of a track team? If I "bought" the Oregon Project, provided everyone with fat salaries and bonus structures, how would I recoup my investment?

On a side note have you ever noticed how many "professional" triathletes-especially the ones right out of college have Drs for fathers? Well let me tell you it is quite a few lol-Sarah Groff-daddy is an MD, Puala Findley-I believe daddy is a nuero surgeon. That is just the tip of the iceburg.

Kawauchi has a cult following in Japan that no other runner in the US has. When he goes out to train, people want pictures with him. Fans follow him on training runs and video tape him and watch.

He could go pro with a corporate team and get full sponsorship and all the benefits by making one phone call.

Kawauchi likes to inspire and do his own thing, which is why he works full time.

Like it was mentioned, Japan totally embraces marathon running and the stars of the sport.

ryong wrote:

Hodgie-san wrote:

Kawauchi is supported by his federation (to some extent) and is a citizen of a country that totally embraces marathon runners. He does not have a need to be motivated by money.Many of our athletes do to survive.

Interesting.

What kind of support does he get from Rikuren?

Creepy Doll wrote:Really??? I ask you how many would be (only) running if they didn't get payed? They would be pursing careers and other ways to MAKE MOney. Whether it be through announcing on TV for the very gifted to coaching. I would guestimate 95% would not be "only" running.

Being a professional runner is certainly a gift. to be able to do something you love, and be one of the best at it,, AND get payed is truly special. Not very many are so fortunate. 50k a year to try and excel at the sport of your choice is truly a gift.

I think you misunderstood me. I wrote that they are not primarily in it for the money. I think we even agree. They are in it for the love, to see what they can do, for the community, for the friendships, for the difficulty, for all of that.

Of course, it's also nice to get a paycheck to do what you love, and I wish that runners were paid more. But my post was in response to the OP's advice: "In sum, get an education, get a real job, run on the side." Sure, that's a good choice if all you are interested in getting out of life is a good paycheck. If you want more, sometimes you gotta get paid less.

hks321 wrote:

The money goes to those who can entertain the spectators like Jeter, Pujols, Lebron, etc.

Okay, let's fill up a stadium with fans and have Jeter, Pujols and Lebron run against some of our Olympic hopefuls in T&F. Winner take all. Prize money is put up based on box office receipts. It can be part of the pre-game show when the Angels come east to Yankee Stadium or when the Bronx Bombers visit Anaheim.

Wouldn't you like to see some of our high jumpers stuff on Lebron? Track and Field or Athletics only has a 2,000 year history longer than any American ball sports.

Have we evolved to this?

Exactly. Supply and dmemand. Truth is track and field is pretty much a niche sport and will never be like football, basketball etc.

"Professional" running is a rare and unique "job." And let's not pretend otherwise. The usually lifespan is short. HOw much do you think a Maggie Vessie or Anna Pearce make a year? And for how much longer? Not much and I would venture for a year or two more MAX.

An olympic sprinter or an exceptionally good-loooking charismatic athlete may be able to cash in on endorsements or the media train but that is preetty fleeting as well.

Let's not delude ourselves here.

Keeping it real in running wrote:

The sponsorship issue is what it is, it fluxuates in the.. .

Fluxuates?

No speak Engrish? wrote:

Keeping it real in running wrote:

The sponsorship issue is what it is, it fluxuates in the.. .

Fluxuates?

This is a great example of "smaldicapus" which is defined as: message board rat who has nothing useful to contribute so instead points out gramatical mistakes in order to make themselves feel valuable. This illness is usually found in people who post on message boards in a mean spirited manner to try and compensate for their very small inadequate man-parts.

JackOfAss wrote:

I know the money is in sponsorship, but does anyone here actually use products because their favorite runner endorses them?

I'll admit I bought the Adidas Adizero Adios 2's because of Gebrselassie. He deserves every cent he makes from sponsorships.

good post, conto.

Definitions R Us wrote:

This is a great example of "smaldicapus" which is defined as: message board rat who has nothing useful to contribute so instead points out gramatical mistakes in order to make themselves feel valuable. This illness is usually found in people who post on message boards in a mean spirited manner to try and compensate for their very small inadequate man-parts.

tank u !!! 4 taeking on thu grammer natsis hu rune thiz bored bi powting owt musteaks jus 2 fele valubul its sew meen spriteded have thum butt it maek thum fele les in adiquot...

Hodgie-san wrote:

For the good health of athletics in this country these folk's should care "about their athletic development" as well:

Folk's what?

Sure, that's a good choice if all you are interested in getting out of life is a good paycheck. If you want more, sometimes you gotta get paid less.

Well, then, don't complain about earning a meager salary if you're following the life you truly want. Those are the implications if you decide to become a professional runner.

There are plenty of athletes in "fringe" sports who have managed to turn their athletic talents into somewhat profitable enterprises. A lot of the top ultramarathon runners have been able to market themselves successfully through blogs, etc. and now have sponsorships. A few of them are able to train without having to hold down a full-time job.

Why not use your status as an elite or sub-elite runner to do something to appeal to "hobby joggers" who, by the way, are fueling the economic growth in our sport? Go start a coaching website. Work at a running store. Offer to work for a gear company and advise them on their products.

It may not fit in with the typical t&f or road-runner athlete mentality to have to work a little to market yourself, but if you are tired of living a subsistence lilfestyle, go out and use your talent as a runner to do something for someone else.

I'll admit I bought the Adidas Adizero Adios 2's because of Gebrselassie. He deserves every cent he makes from sponsorships.[/quote]

There is prolly more people buying shoes because good runners wear them than most people think.

I have a kid on my team who loves Nike (even before they sponsored the NYS XC Meets). He knows the top runners, he even knows all the Kenyans apart. He is good looking and charismatic- I have younger runners who by Nike because he has them. Kids (esp girls) from other teams get them because HE does. Heck, even our principal, a non-runner, knows what shoes he wears.

He was influenced by sponsored runners and he influences others.

Good post Conto. I believe the emphasis on endorsements needs to move away from shoe companies to flourish. Nike has a huge stable of athletes to choice from to be their face/voice. Even for runner-specific marketing, why water down the personalities that they already have with niche athletes when they can make do with well-toned models for a marketing campaign. You mentioned DD and Subway, I remember D.Torrence talking about Whole Foods, and think about US Postal and also Chipotle (cycling) - with the exception of "Jarod from Subway" what are the "faces" and "voices" of these companies? These companies don't have established athletes to choice from. I think running/track athletes can have more value-add at non-running shoe companies.I think the best value can come about through a sub-super elite (outside of top10) athlete teaming up with a regional non-running company. The athlete would be active and visible in the company's market while training and road racing. Also, I believe the New Balance meet in Boston usually sells out and, if not, is well attended.

Conto wrote:

We are largely to blame for the lack of money in the sport. I have to ask Ben Bruce... what do you do for Nike?

Here's more on the Wickens survey....at least for the distance events:

http://runpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=54:athlete-earnings-study&catid=7:main-menu-content&Itemid=47

You are a wise man, Conto.